Parenting

Is it a right or a privledge? What are your views?

I think of it as a privilege. After all, the state will take children away from abusive parents.

I 100% agree. I think parenting is a very special privilege. And I believe that it should be taken away if if the privilege is abused.

Ahhh... but therein lies the problem. One persons definition of abuse is another persons definition of discipline. I'm not talking about beatings here, either. After all, it appears now even disciplining a child who is throwing a tantrum by taking toys away or yelling at them borders on some people's definition of "abuse."

At one time having children was considered an obligation... a DUTY. That puts it in line with a right.

I do not believe the "state" has any business in parenting, unless you're dealing with children who are physically being neglected or severely abused. Someone who spanks their child, or makes them stand in the corner or takes privileges away should not be losing kids to the state for abusing their "self esteem." :rolleyes: And if you think it doesn't happen??? Ya got another thing coming.

~phos

Ahhh... but therein lies the problem. One persons definition of abuse is another persons definition of discipline. I'm not talking about beatings here, either. After all, it appears now even disciplining a child who is throwing a tantrum by taking toys away or yelling at them borders on some people's definition of "abuse."

At one time having children was considered an obligation... a DUTY. That puts it in line with a right.

I do not believe the "state" has any business in parenting, unless you're dealing with children who are physically being neglected or severely abused. Someone who spanks their child, or makes them stand in the corner or takes privileges away should not be losing kids to the state for abusing their "self esteem." :rolleyes: And if you think it doesn't happen??? Ya got another thing coming.

~phos
Completely agree. I'm not really sure how that would ever be completely correctly enforced however. Not everyone will ever agree on what exactly constitutes abuse.

In my opinion, my MIL should have lost all of her kids. However, at that time the general concensus was its a parents job, they can do it right or they can screw it up, its up to them.

Now, things have swung too far the other way. My brother's friend got removed from his home because it was not considered up to someone's standards. The place was a pigsty, but it wasnt dangerous.

So basically, I agree with you but I dont think the state will ever get to a point where it interfers when and only when it should.

I don't believe it is a privilege either, at least not in a legal sense. Here in the U.S., the choice to procreate is a fundamental right. That said, I think the state should have some control if a child is being physically abused--spanking is one thing, but scrapes, bruises, and broken bones is another.

I don't believe it is a privilege either, at least not in a legal sense. Here in the U.S., the choice to procreate is a fundamental right. That said, I think the state should have some control if a child is being physically abused--spanking is one thing, but scrapes, bruises, and broken bones is another.


you've never parented a boy. much less a hyperactive one. he had scrapes, he had bruises, he had broken bones, cuts stictches etc. he was not abused. I once was accused of it by a young new intern who only saw multiple admits to the hospital and didn't bother to check further.... he also had severe asthma.

what about emotional abuse. what about sexual abuse.. these are abuses you can't see. and often the kids won't tell.

there is right and there is wrong. sadly not everyone's on the same page as to what constitute right and wrong.

I think that it could be both a right and a priviledge. But it does not mean that we should abuse that right and abuse the child that we were priviledged to have. There are ALOT of wonderful couples that for some reason or another would make wonderful parents, but are unable to conceive and then there are those parents out there that have multiple children but neglect them or abuse them both physically, emotionally and mentally. So there really is no right answer to this post.

Parenthood is not a right. Not everyone is meant to be a parent by virtue of being an adult with mature eggs or sperm. Parenthood is a privilege and if you don't rise to the occasion, your kids are taken away from you!

Parenthood is not a right. Not everyone is meant to be a parent by virtue of being an adult with mature eggs or sperm. Parenthood is a privilege and if you don't rise to the occasion, your kids are taken away from you!


sadly it does not work that way.

sadly it does not work that way.

Yup, I agree Nessa. I've seen kids who should be taken away stay because social workers couldn't "prove" that the kids were being abused, and I've seen kids taken away and placed in foster care who should NOT have been.

I think the system can't be perfect, and I think it's dangerous to expect it to be. The community has always served an important role in helping to raise our children when help is needed. I think that this is part of the problem now - we (largely) no longer have an extended network of friends, family, and community members to help people when they fail to look after their kids properly.

I believe parenting is a privilege. Too many people believe it's their right to have children. Too many people who believe it's their right, also believe you can control children. In fact, we guide our children, not control them.

you've never parented a boy. much less a hyperactive one. he had scrapes, he had bruises, he had broken bones, cuts stictches etc. he was not abused. I once was accused of it by a young new intern who only saw multiple admits to the hospital and didn't bother to check further.... he also had severe asthma.

I would think that scrapes and bruises from normal rough-housing activities would look different than scrapes and bruises from regular beatings? :confused:

I would think that scrapes and bruises from normal rough-housing activities would look different than scrapes and bruises from regular beatings? :confused:


sadly Em not always.

Mike had something called 'fingertip bruising' on his legs once. his legs looked like someone had grabbed his leg and twisted hard. it leaves bruises where the fingertips grab the leg. He wasn't yet old enough to talk to explain that he just ran and fell a lot (he was walking at 9-10 months) he was just a very active boy with very fair skin...

I was 8 months pregnant with younger son and Mike cut his finger (I was right in the room with him when he cut it it was a freak accident not involving knives or scissors) we rushed him to the hospital for stitches, they had to put him in the papoose board (a board used to tie down kids who wiggle too much) it took 4 people to get this 20 pound kid in a pap board.
The new intern (it was july) saw his folder (paper folders back then-omg we are old) was about 6 inches thick which seemed excessive for a 2 yr old boy... what she didn't check was that over half the admits were for asthma attacks... she saw how he fought the pap board, she saw the fingertip bruising and poof there were cops, and the accusations that I was abusing my kid... he was too young to talk... I just looked at her and taught her a very quick lesson in jumping to conclusions.... "ummm did you note dear DOCTOR that OVER 50% of his admits are for asthma treatments?"..... I was fuming.... but all she saw was a fat (i was 8 1/2 months pregnant) braless (I RUSHED MY BLEEDING KID TO THE HOSPITAL I didn't take time to get dressed....) unkept woman (well sure here i was 8 1/2 months pregnant in july 1986 which was one of the HOTTEST and DRIEST summers baltimore had seen in years) with a kid covered in fingertip bruises who fought the pap board.

NO you can't tell abuse bruises from normal wear and tear..... not always.

Nessa, I'm sorry for your incident and you're right, it isn't "always" the case that things are reported against people the right way. However, for the most part, certain bruises, breaks and accidents are absolutely signs of abuse. Such as a round fracture which results from twisting the limb around so that the bone breaks. 90% of the time, it's not an accident. Bruising is tough because some people bruise more easily than others.

The point is, though, that corporal punishment has been deemed wrong to protect children. There are no social workers who mean to take children away from parents when normal spankings are involved. Thing is in social work there are trends that occur based on topics in the news. When the little girl nixmary brown was killed by her stepfather despite being following by social services, NYC started cracking down and placing kids in foster care more vehemently. When the hubbub dies down and the city realizes they have more kids than foster homes, they'll stop placing as many kids and try to keep them with their families. It's VERY political as to who gets placed and for what.

As for the question at hand......on some level having kids is everyone's right. No one can be sterilized against their will, however some should be! But to actually have children and help them to grow into independent, successful people, THAT is a privilege and should be treated as such.

It is most definitely a privilege. Afterall, if it were a right then parents would get their children taken away from them by CPS ;)

It's my right to bring as many kids as I'd like into the world. It is a privilege for me to take care of those children.

Nessa, I hope you reported that intern to her superior! :mad: