Anyone want to talk Bisexual or Swinging..

Here I am...


and here's our story...

met brian in 12/02 and he was fun... and fun it was supposed to be. but he said he loved me. he said he wanted to marry me. He didn't ACT it. I ambi but had not done anything about it in recent times. I found some bi-women online and they suggested swinging to me...

I proposed to brian in 10/03 that we try it.... i figured it would be good, he'd meet someone and he'd leave me..... and that would be good cause he was pretending to commit and every time I tried to leave he'd ramp up the I love yous and other BS to make me stay. I didn't want to hurt him. He was a nice guy but young.

we went to a swing party... small... at a hotel... he had a BLAST and so did it. it was awesome.

two weeks later he calls me and says I think i'm ready to make that commitment and move in (we had discussed it) and I will move in for spring break when I get my truck back (another long story).... and he meant it. He realzied that he loved me and didn't want to lose me....

He moved in april 2004 we married December 31, 2004. WE keep on swinging.

Of course WE don't have a TYPICAL swing group. We are a family oriented group. We are good FRIENDS with almost all the members. we do family events like thanksgiving with the families (I had 17 here for thanksgiving both in the lifestyle and not). WE go racing, we talk on-line and on the phone....

and we CARE about our members.... they know they can come to us for whatever they need. WE've moved several people with bucket brigades off of trucks. gone out to dinner. gone dirt track racing...

and yes we have sex. mostly oral. but occasionally protected penetration. we had a Simbian at our last party...

but our parties are a LOT Of fun... lots of fun... lots of laughs and lots of food...

questions?

http://guidance.gospelcom.net/img/stress.jpg

http://guidance.gospelcom.net/img/stress.jpg



ah so you're stressed by this.


LOL

your pretty judgemental aren't you?

Pretty much.

I believe everyone has the right to do what they want if it doesn't harm others. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. I'm old fashioned and don't believe people should have sexual contact with anyone except their partner.

Pretty much.

I believe everyone has the right to do what they want if it doesn't harm others. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. I'm old fashioned and don't believe people should have sexual contact with anyone except their partner.


but i bet you believe in serial mongomy don't you?

and you know what.... if your so judgments this was NOT opened as a thread to be judgmental it WAS however opened for those that have questions or are curious.... interesting that you have to put down those that you don't agree with.

When I was young I was a whore. When I matured and realized what I wanted I chose girls I wanted to be with. Just because I didn't marry them doesn't mean I was practicing serial monogamy, they just weren't who I wanted to be with forever. Now that I've found that girl i will stay in a monogamus relationship.

Since I would like MY partner to be monogamous-- I am just glad that my partner isn't interested in that lifestyle.

But if you both are into it and enjoy it and still maintain a strong relationship---- more power to ya! :)

Some Dude

you seem to indicate that swingers are immature.

is that what you believe?

my boyfriend was a whore too... i think he is sick of women! One is enough! He's pretty much been with them all, I may be the last one left.

PS- I totally don't condemn the lifestyle... I think it's totally cool that both of you have strong enough feelings for each other to maintain a good relationship while doing that.

I have fiddled with the idea--- not of formal swinging but just of either having someone else with us or the idea of multiple partners... and it's just not something I think I am strong enought o handle just to maintain a good sexlife. I am really a prude and I think my self esteem is just too low for it... i am pretty weak in a lot of ways.

SB you make an IMPORTANT point.

BOTH partners have to want it. BOTH partners have to agree.

the relationship is so totally based on trust, honesty and communication.


we do have rules on cheating as well...


CHEATING is ANYTHING you CAN'T WON'T or DON'T tell your partner.

there are no secrets in a good swing relationship.

Some Dude

you seem to indicate that swingers are immature.

is that what you believe?

I said I was immature when young, then I matured. I never said a swinger was immature. I don't think immature is the right word for my opinion of a swinger. I don't believe you want to know the words I would use to describe them. Do what you want, it's not hurting me. But I will not support swinging in any way whatsoever.

I think there is something to be said about having THAT much trust and honesty in a relationship. While I may not understand all aspects of it, I think that part of it is extremely commendable and impressive.

PS- I totally don't condemn the lifestyle... I think it's totally cool that both of you have strong enough feelings for each other to maintain a good relationship while doing that.

I have fiddled with the idea--- not of formal swinging but just of either having someone else with us or the idea of multiple partners... and it's just not something I think I am strong enought o handle just to maintain a good sexlife. I am really a prude and I think my self esteem is just too low for it... i am pretty weak in a lot of ways.


OH I don't think your weak. WE toy with the idea of giving it up.... we have one couple we are friends with they go in and out of the lifestyle like I buy underwear. I don't care if i sleep with them or not they are still very good frends of mine.

and our core group, I can tell you that we have about an 90/10 interaction. 90% of the time we are just friends.

and we all know that the SECOND our spouses want to stop... we stop.

I said I was immature when young, then I matured. I never said a swinger was immature. I don't think immature is the right word for my opinion of a swinger. I don't believe you want to know the words I would use to describe them. Do what you want, it's not hurting me. But I will not support swinging in any way whatsoever.


Did not ask you to support it. Did not ask you to approve it.

WHAT I DID was ASK if anyone had any questions. I DID NOT ASK if anyone had any COMMENTS.... however...

feel free to tell me what you think cause I can handle it. but i doubt you can handle my arguments back at you....

see because you have NO TOLERANCE or FLEXIBILITY in your thinking


would you lie to your partner about where you went or what you did if you knew she did not approve? would you do it?

such as

smoke
drink coffee
look at porn
gamble
masturbate
eat bad food
do you tell her when you see another pretty girl.....

How do you keep from becoming emotionally attached to someone else in the group, especially if y'all are such good friends? Like what would happen if you and Bri have a fight so you're all pissed off at him, then you run into Mr. X at the supermarket who just had a fight with HIS wife and so is all pissed off at her, then you guys start confiding in each other, and one thing leads to another....Also, do you and Bri actually watch each other do stuff with other people or is it all behind closed doors?

Did not ask you to support it. Did not ask you to approve it.

WHAT I DID was ASK if anyone had any questions. I DID NOT ASK if anyone had any COMMENTS.... however...

feel free to tell me what you think cause I can handle it. but i doubt you can handle my arguments back at you....

see because you have NO TOLERANCE or FLEXIBILITY in your thinking


would you lie to your partner about where you went or what you did if you knew she did not approve? would you do it?

such as

smoke
drink coffee
look at porn
gamble
masturbate
eat bad food
do you tell her when you see another pretty girl.....


First off, you can't do a fuckin thing to intimidate me. Pfft, can't hanlde it.

You wanted opinions, don't act like you didn't. You wanted to defend your lifestyle because that's what helps you accept it.

Swinging is fucking sick, period. You can not tell me you have respect for yourself or your partner when you fuck someone else. I don't give a fuck if they are laying right next to you. Total lack of respect.

I do not have to tolerate your lifestyle, but I said do what you want. Another example of you wanting to defend it. I never said swingers were immature, but you said that so you could defend it.

Quit projecting scenarios with my girlfriend. Thats a really weak form of arguement.

Maybe I just believe the the word love means something much different than you. I do believe I respect the word a shit ton fucking more than you do.

It's fucking sick.

do you tell her when you see another pretty girl.....

By the way, that was my fav.

No I don't tell her. Why? It's called respect. Look the word up. Last time I looked it up one of the examples was not sleeping with other people while in a relationship.

How do you keep from becoming emotionally attached to someone else in the group, especially if y'all are such good friends? Like what would happen if you and Bri have a fight so you're all pissed off at him, then you run into Mr. X at the supermarket who just had a fight with HIS wife and so is all pissed off at her, then you guys start confiding in each other, and one thing leads to another....Also, do you and Bri actually watch each other do stuff with other people or is it all behind closed doors?

This actually happened when I was in Rochester... I was working in the news up there and it was when my boyfriend and I were first getting together....

there was an age gap couple... she was 26, he was 45. Married, 2 kids... they were swingers, she wound up murdered... her husband, who was a LAWYER, had an alibi, but it turned out he hired his wife's BROTHER to kill her.

Turns out he started to get jealous of her relationships with the other men they swung with.

I guess they are the poster children for people who probably should NOT be swingers.

I remember my mom saying "THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BE WITH AN OLDER MAN!" as if, because of this case, I would wind up dead.

She's much cooler with it now...

By the way, that was my fav.

No I don't tell her. Why? It's called respect. Look the word up. Last time I looked it up one of the examples was not sleeping with other people while in a relationship.

haha I guess my boyfriend doesn't respect me... cuz he certainly lets me know when he sees another pretty girl!

PS- chill out...

Heh, who woulda thought I'd go off on a rant when pushed?

Sorry, but everyone knows I don't keep quiet.

How do you keep from becoming emotionally attached to someone else in the group, especially if y'all are such good friends? Like what would happen if you and Bri have a fight so you're all pissed off at him, then you run into Mr. X at the supermarket who just had a fight with HIS wife and so is all pissed off at her, then you guys start confiding in each other, and one thing leads to another....Also, do you and Bri actually watch each other do stuff with other people or is it all behind closed doors?


GOOD question.

WE prefer OPEN swap. we USUALLY are all in the same room.

and when toby fights with chele he whines about it to brian who is his best friend.

and chele whines to me about toby.

not only do we swing together but Brian and Toby have a Racing team.

I am very emotionally attached to our friends we play with. WE've bailed a few out of dire straits... they were the ones who made our wedding happen


but to be honest I can't ever imagine being so pissed at brian that i would ever cheat on him.....

First off, you can't do a fuckin thing to intimidate me. Pfft, can't hanlde it.

Ha. you've met your match young one.

You wanted opinions, don't act like you didn't. You wanted to defend your lifestyle because that's what helps you accept it.

ummm, no. but your projecting your needs here. i don't care about opinions at all. and i don't need to defend my life style. it's not about that. I have lots of friends and aquaintances who are interested in this. shame your banned from ageless you could go back and reseach the threads on swining....

i had lots of PMs from folks who didn't want to discuss it in public. not that they wanted to do it but they were interested and curious and i was open and receptive to answering questions. Just like Nadine is about her lifestyle choice.

i don't need HELP accepting anything kiddo.


Swinging is fucking sick, period. You can not tell me you have respect for yourself or your partner when you fuck someone else. I don't give a fuck if they are laying right next to you. Total lack of respect.

i guess growing up during the sexual revolution makes a difference. i guess the fact that I never see YOUNG people who swing well makes a difference. the best swingers i've seen are all middle aged and older. because we understand that emotions and physicality are very different.

i have a lot more respect for myself and my husband than you would ever even try to understand. but your mind is closed and you don't want to believe that.

and again in OUR group there is very litte penetration. you ddin't note that.

define respect. that might be a good place to start.

web defs include:

Definitions of respect on the Web:

(usually preceded by `in') a detail or point; "it differs in that respect"
esteem: the condition of being honored (esteemed or respected or well regarded); "it is held in esteem"; "a man who has earned high regard"
an attitude of admiration or esteem; "she lost all respect for him"
deference: a courteous expression (by word or deed) of esteem or regard; "his deference to her wishes was very flattering"; "be sure to give my respects to the dean"
obedience: behavior intended to please your parents; "their children were never very strong on obedience"; "he went to law school out of respect for his father's wishes"
regard: a feeling of friendship and esteem; "she mistook his manly regard for love"; "he inspires respect"
regard highly; think much of; "I respect his judgement"; "We prize his creativity"
show respect towards; "honor your parents!"
deference: courteous regard for people's feelings; "in deference to your wishes"; "out of respect for his privacy"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

or:

Respect is the objective, unbiased consideration and regard for the rights, values, beliefs and property of all people. Kant's categorical imperative as well as what is commonly understood of being a gentleman incorporate the concept of respect.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respect



again since this clearly indicates that i am aligned with my husband's values and beliefs, i can't see how you can say we don't respect each other. I think it's primarily because your mind is so closed to this lifestyle.


I do not have to tolerate your lifestyle, but I said do what you want. Another example of you wanting to defend it. I never said swingers were immature, but you said that so you could defend it.

you implied with your statement "when I matured and stopped" your distates and discomfort is palpable.

Quit projecting scenarios with my girlfriend. Thats a really weak form of arguement.

I didn't PROJECT. I aksed questions that i would ask of anyone. why don't you answer? what scares you to answer my questions? you misinterpret. and getting defensive just means you don't have to answer the question. nice save.

Maybe I just believe the the word love means something much different than you. I do believe I respect the word a shit ton fucking more than you do.

what is love then? good place to start. i think you don't understand what love is. i think you cuss and take away from your arguement. I think your angry. I think your scared and I think your overwhememed. and maybe a tad jealous (not that you'd admit it--don't even bother to laugh at me i can already hear you)

It's fucking sick.

no it's not. but intolerance and hatred is.

By the way, that was my fav.

No I don't tell her. Why? It's called respect. Look the word up. Last time I looked it up one of the examples was not sleeping with other people while in a relationship.


display your source. it's cleary not well defined as that was not a single entry in any of my sources.

haha I guess my boyfriend doesn't respect me... cuz he certainly lets me know when he sees another pretty girl!

PS- chill out...


It scares him that's why he's so hostile.


did you know that most couples that get into swinging and stay are in it because the WOMAN suggested it.

did you know it won't save or help a bad relationship but it makes a good realtionship ROCK solid.

i have a stronger relationship with brian than I ever did with my other husbands.....

as far as some dude goes, his hostility and anger speaks volumes to me. let him rant and get it out of his system. it must serve some purpose for him to be so insulting and hostile while trying to defend his thoughts.

Some Dude-

I may disagree with you OFTEN, but you know I like ya.

That being said...

If you are so hung up on respect... then it may be nice to show Nessa some respect.

She's not moving in on your girlfriend. She's not lying to anyone. She's not pushing her lifestyle on anyone who doesn't want to be a part of it.

It is DISrespectful to call someone sick for the decisions that they choose to pursue. Her partner is into it, so she is not disrespecting him.

My boyfriend WOULD be disrespecting me if he suggested it because he KNOWS very well that is NOT something I would want.

When both parties enjoy it and are strong enough to keep their own relationship... I find that respectable.

I bet his girlfriend is to thin for my taste anyway LOL

There are lots of people in this world that don't deserve respect due to their actions. Nessa is one of them in my opinion.

Nessa, you don't begin to scare me. Just because you boss a 30 something year old bed wetter around doesn't mean it makes you scary to a real man.

Look up the word sarcasm and see if it has a link to respect.

But who I do have respect for is Emzak, and because of that I'm dropping this subject. Just let it be known that if you push me more I won't stay quiet. I truly don't give a fuck what you think about me Nessa, but I do know what I think about you.

I bet his girlfriend is to thin for my taste anyway LOL

Thanks for the compliment.

your dropping it cause your scared.

bring it on

oh my goodness LIGHTEN UP.

your dropping it cause your scared.

bring it on

You're

for ONCE i'd like to find someone who can argue this without resorting to personal attacks.


some dude you disapoint me. I thought you could do that.

Personal attacks are fun when called for.

This is a two second arguement. I believe in monogamy and you believe you should fuck anyone while in a relationship. What's to argue?

*looks up*
*looks down*

*looks at her watch*

Ummmmm... i forgot... i have to go...

*RUNS AWAY*

*looks up*
*looks down*

*looks at her watch*

Ummmmm... i forgot... i have to go...

*RUNS AWAY*

I'm following you.

But don't worry, I'm not trying to sleep with you.

Personal attacks are fun when called for.

This is a two second arguement. I believe in monogamy and you believe you should fuck anyone while in a relationship. What's to argue?


nope that's not it at all.


see you didn't read what I said. You didn't notice the nuances of the lifestyle.


you don't get it. but then you don 't want to.

if you would bother to ask quesions to dispel your ignorance i would be happy to ask them but you prefer to hide behind your attacks and supposed superiority.

you are afraid to discuss this because you are afraid to find out you are too quick to judge.

for you information swingers are often quite discerning in who they interact with.

and i prefer girl on girl play to men anyway... although if there's a man that interests me I mgiht go for it.

but what it takes to interest me is something between a man's ears....

nope that's not it at all.


see you didn't read what I said. You didn't notice the nuances of the lifestyle.


you don't get it. but then you don 't want to.

if you would bother to ask quesions to dispel your ignorance i would be happy to ask them but you prefer to hide behind your attacks and supposed superiority.

you are afraid to discuss this because you are afraid to find out you are too quick to judge.

for you information swingers are often quite discerning in who they interact with.

and i prefer girl on girl play to men anyway... although if there's a man that interests me I mgiht go for it.

but what it takes to interest me is something between a man's ears....


You're right, I don't want to. It doesn't mean I'm ignorant, it means I think the lifestyle is for sick in the head people and want nothing to do with it. How you swing isn't the issue, it's that fact that you do.

"My" supposed superioty. Kettle, pot called.

Now type out some more to make yourself secure with your sick choices. I'll laugh some more but I won't reply again. Mainly cause I'm going to eat and I want it to stay down.

*creeps back in for one more comment*

Ok. For the record, I don't agree with the lifestyle.

And, for the record...

My boyfriend would NOT touch another woman. Why?

because he respects me. Because he KNOWS it would KILL me.

Does that mean he doesn't want to?? I WISH.

If I said "I think we should stay together but be able to sleep with other people..."

He would totally jump at it.

I guess this makes him a bad guy.

But I love the buttmunch anyway.

*runs out again*

BACK ON TRACK here guys


any questions?

DOES NOT make him a bad guy because he admits he would shtup others

makes him honest.

also makes him a good man because he respects YOUR wishes.

AL all over again! just hope this time nessa ya don't get pissed at me ;)

i just have a hard time wrapping my brain around the "why" of it. i don't get how it can be good for a relationship. for me i would have a hard time "sharing" my partner...then again i have a pretty wide green streak on top of the insecurity ;)
now D/s i can understand a bit better

AL all over again! just hope this time nessa ya don't get pissed at me ;)

i just have a hard time wrapping my brain around the "why" of it. i don't get how it can be good for a relationship. for me i would have a hard time "sharing" my partner...then again i have a pretty wide green streak on top of the insecurity ;)
now D/s i can understand a bit better


NOT AL at all.... because people are not allowed to speak their minds there and some dude would have been editied... damn shame

I am not pissed at you at all you know that

and JEALOUSY does NOT fit in well with swing life style.

i personally can't wrap my head around BDSM as a total lifestyle but it doesn't mean i'm going to attack or be afraid of those that choose it.

I guess it's a total mindset... I also know if brian said to me today... I don't want to swing anymore I'd be like OK.... and vice versa...

it's not an everyday part of our lives like BDSM would be. bri's ex wanted to be collarred and subbed 24/7 on her knees in the kitchen IN FRONT of his child.... not for him or me... but for some I guess it works.... and that's fine

i'm not sure if you can't wrap your head around it i can explain it but i'm willing to try... i think i got frustrated last time

because i don't explain it well.

HOW can it be good for a relationship?

hmmm....


1. we have to be able to TALK and communicate about any and everything at any time.

2. we have to be OPEN and HONEST at all times.

3. we had to sit down and CLEARLY define what is CHEATING. I think this is a big key issue... how many couples discuss what are the guidelines for their relationship what things are acceptable and what are not. i mean if a man lies to his wife because he gambles and spends money but he knows she will be unhappy even if he comes home to her every night... and does everything else as expected....is he being true and honest to his spouse? not in our defintion of cheating.

what if a woman goes to bed at night and makes love with her husband and tells him she's orgasmic and he's wonderful but she isn't and she's unhappy but keeps it to herself.... is that fair to him? not in our relationship.


does that help at all to explain it?

Ok, you want a serious reply, here you go...

1. we have to be able to TALK and communicate about any and everything at any time.

Normal relationship

2. we have to be OPEN and HONEST at all times.

Normal relationship

3. we had to sit down and CLEARLY define what is CHEATING. I think this is a big key issue... how many couples discuss what are the guidelines for their relationship what things are acceptable and what are not. i mean if a man lies to his wife because he gambles and spends money but he knows she will be unhappy even if he comes home to her every night... and does everything else as expected....is he being true and honest to his spouse? not in our defintion of cheating.

what if a woman goes to bed at night and makes love with her husband and tells him she's orgasmic and he's wonderful but she isn't and she's unhappy but keeps it to herself.... is that fair to him? not in our relationship.

Many couples talk about what is acceptable in their relationship. If they don't, they're stupid.

Hiding things from your spouse is a form of cheating. These things are easily forgiven. Physical intimate cheating is not. Why? Because we're talking about emotions and betrayal of love. The examples you mentioned might not be good for a relationship, but for the most part there are no emotional bonds broken.

The open relationship you have is not cheating, no. But in my opinion it is extremely immoral.

I also don't believe you can quit anytime. I think it might just be an addiction and one of you might not be able to live a normal lifestyle.

I think there are many things people do in their lives that contribute to the downfall of a moral society. I believe swinging is one of them.

We are the most intelligent creatures on earth and are capable of making decisions yet we humans continue to make mistakes and do things we know are not right.

There are even some species of animals that have life partners.

Ok, you want a serious reply, here you go...

fair enough




Many couples talk about what is acceptable in their relationship. If they don't, they're stupid.

many do. many don't. i wouldn't go so far as to call them stupid but i would say they are playing with fire.



Hiding things from your spouse is a form of cheating.

agreed. see that was easy.....


These things are easily forgiven.

umm not to me... you lie, you cheat, you betray me.... it's not easy to forgive or forget.



Physical intimate cheating is not. Why? Because we're talking about emotions and betrayal of love.

got it. i understand now.

you equate the ACT of sex with love and emotions. WE do not. Swingers for the most part (at least IN OUR EXPERIENCE) see sex as an extention of our fun. as my husband says I fuck my friends I make love to my wife.... big huge difference to all of US.

I would be devestated if my DH had an emotional affair. he can fuck whomever he wants as long as i know about it IN ADVANCE and I APPROVE. not that he asks... EVER. he wants me there with him.



The examples you mentioned might not be good for a relationship, but for the most part there are no emotional bonds broken.

there is NO emotional bond broken with sex but I'm sorry I beg to differ there is a HUGE emotional bond broken with lying cheating or sneaking....



The open relationship you have is not cheating, no. But in my opinion it is extremely immoral.

EXTREMELY... so what would MODERATELY immoral be? Sorry... had to dig... cause see it's YOUR morals you're using to judge others by. I personally find judging people to be extremely immoral and unethical too.

I also don't believe you can quit anytime. I think it might just be an addiction and one of you might not be able to live a normal lifestyle.

well you think wrong. How often do you think we swing.... and guess what... if we do great.. if we don't... great. it's really not something we talk about daily or even weekly.... or monthly.... we've gone months and months and months without it and we could again if we chose to. we do not. Of course no matter what I say here, it' won't matter because you believe i'm lying to myself. I don't lie. not to myself, not to my huband, not to my friends, not even to strangers online.



I think there are many things people do in their lives that contribute to the downfall of a moral society. I believe swinging is one of them.

ya think.... well i can tell you that ALL of our members have jobs and homes and pay taxes. we belong to service organizations including sitting on the board of directors of huge organizations., we help strangers and we basically live pretty admirable lives.

We are the most intelligent creatures on earth and are capable of making decisions yet we humans continue to make mistakes and do things we know are not right.

who is it not right for? and of course the narrow minded belief that we are the only intelligent life in the universe is universally known. interesting that almost ALL the swingers I know are heavily into FANDOM too.

There are even some species of animals that have life partners.

yes and when the partner dies so do they. humans are not one of them.

OK, this is heated in here!!!

Nessa, I think it's really interesting to learn about your relationship. It is very foreign to me, and I don't understand it, so it's interesting to learn from a direct source.

I think the biggest reason I don't understand it is because I too equate sex with love and intimacy. One of my ex's (I was with him for 7 years) did NOT equate sexual intimacy with love and it led to tons of problems and contributed to the eventual breakdown of our relationship. I tried very hard to understand it, and even actually went so far as considering bringing a third person into the bedroom with us even though it was far from what I wanted.

And I have jealousy issues too. The thought of my partner even having an intimate discussion with someone else burns me up....I know, I'm insecure.

I have never been able to seperate emotions from sex...it's just the way I'm built. But, we are all built differently and there's no denying that, and IMO there is no right and wrong...just what is right and wrong for you and your partner.

Anyhow, back to swinging...I don't really have any questions, but I find it really interesting to think about. With you guys, it seems like it's more like you have a network of very close friends that you are sexually intimate with, rather than a group of people who get together to swap partners. When I thought of swinging before, I would think of parties where at the end of the night people would go off with another person and spend the night with them or of couples where each person would have an exclusive relationship with someone else outside the marriage.

Oh, and yep Somedude is right about animals....birds mostly. Ravens for example will only have one mate, and when they are gone, they are alone....but they don't necessarily die. It's commonly believed that wolves mate for life, but nope they don't. :D

Thank you Annie. You've got it.

IT is OUR choice.... it's not something for everyone... and i would never expect it to be.

I am sorry your ex did not match your needs.


I have to tell you my second disaster could not deal with my being BI and I said OK and I stopped for the time I was with him. My husband loves me for who I am and in fact delights in my bi-ness. just like he delights in the fact that I suggested the life style....

bri has an incredibly intimate relationship with his best friend's wife.... he goes to her when he's upset with me... she gives him the jewish american princess point of view.....

there are clubs that people can go to and meet and swap but in our circle (which is alway increasing) we like to meet as couples, dine or have drinks and do that a few times to see if they FIT into our group. we have one couple who has been in our group for over two years... it took us over a year before we found time to have an adult party with them.... but we see them all the time.... for mah jong, dinner, movies.... etc....

i think to the mind's eye maybe we are not typical swingers but we are to us.

sex is just so NOT important to us... some of us go months and months without a party and sometimew without any sex with our partners either.

a bunch of middle aged folks who sex is not that important to... maybe that's why it works.

Different strokes for different folks. Something may trip my trigger whereas it might even really bother someone else.

Swinging is foreign to me, as incomprehensible as listening to Japanese. BDSM is also foreign, though the BD part I do go 'hmmmmmm' at whereas the SM is taboo.

I suspect many have secret desires. Perhaps what some might see as just a little kinky, either + or -, where others would see perverted. Is crossdressing kinky or perverted? Guys who wear garters and stockings, etc or women who enjoy strap-ons and assume the male posture? Why is it necessary for many women to wear sexy ;) under their clothes? Makes them 'feel' sexy. They enjoy it. (Nessa and Bri are just willing to discuss their mutual desires. Most never do, not even with their partner.)

From a different perspective, the film "Mr. & Mrs. Smith". Those two were sexually 'fridged' (the word works here) - but when they found what the other did - HOT HOT HOT! They became fucking rabbbits.

Riggs in "Lethal Weapon III" if I recall, where that woman cop, who when he found that she had wounds and knew her shit (fighting), and she saw his scars - became like fucking rabbits also.

People turn on to different things. It's when one finds that 'someone' who turns them on and where they are capable of being themselves and the significant other enjoys it - OH LA LA!

Drink all the Coke ya want- but I like Pepsi:D

Hey Salt.... I love you.... but only as friends ok?

Hey Salt.... I love you.... but only as friends ok?

:p LOL

And no! I won't tell what I wear under my jeans;)

:eek:

:p LOL

And no! I won't tell what I wear under my jeans;)

:eek:


that's ok i have a very good imagination....

:D

LOL. Well, as some of you know, Nessa is a good friend of mine... IRL and online. She knows and respects that I am not a swinger and can't ever be, and yet I still love and respect her despite the inability to really love or respect the lifestyle choice... its just not something I could do. That's one of the truly wonderful things about diversity!!

I mean, I'd never get tell someone they're gross or immoral because they like mustard and I think it's foul. ROFLAO. (Mustard is foul, but that's cuz my taste buds are different than other peeps.)

Anywho, I think this is a good conversation, but just wanted to point out that people CAN be totally kickbutt friends IRL and online even when their lifestyle choices diverge on many other levels. Hell, my best friend through HS and college was gay, but he was still probably one of the coolest people EVER... his choice is his choice.

I respect Nessa and BigBri both, as people. They are great friends. They are also swingers. And that's cool... for them. I just know myself well enough to know I could never, ever, ever do that myself... and I've also NEVER felt pressured to go there with them either, which is how they show their respect for me. :D

~phos

I've learned alot of things in the past two years. I've learned them by letting go of the beliefs of my "youth" and trying real hard to figure out what *I* believe. One of the things I've learned that has really freed me is that I'm not right. My answers and my belief system may be right to me and a million others, but life is not a democracy...majority means nothing. By being "right" in my own mind for SO many years, I alienated good people...who I thought had deplorably "wrong" lifestyles. I also had to vehnamently hide my relationship with a woman, and it broke us both emotionally. She went running back to the church, and I promised myself that, no matter how uncomfortable I may make others or myself, if I feel something is right for me...then I"m going to do it. That being said, I salute Nessa and Bri for finding something that works for them and sticking with it...no matter what. Though, I don't think I have the moral fortitude to live that kind of lifestyle.

I'll admit, like Annie and others, that I equate sex with love and intimacy. Besides my relatioship with a woman, however brief it was, Leigh was my first sexual partner at 25. That's how deeply I felt about sex. It's for one person. (but if I had known how kick ass it was, I mighta been a HO!) So, that's my opinion :)

Alanna:o

One of the things I've learned that has really freed me is that I'm not right. My answers and my belief system may be right to me and a million others, but life is not a democracy...majority means nothing. By being "right" in my own mind for SO many years, I alienated good people...who I thought had deplorably "wrong" lifestyles.

***applauding lanners***

well said and so, so true.

:)

It is my belief that if you accept everything that people do without thinking how it effects society you are part of the problem.

Think about it, all through the centuries the people that judged others to be wrong or below them are the ones that changed the world for the better. We once had slavery. It was once illegal for women to vote. There are many things against the law now that use to be acceptable. We have progressed as humans and evolved into civilized people. I don't think some peoples genes have caught up with that yet though.

Immoral actions are a part of this.

Giddy up.

It is my belief that if you accept everything that people do without thinking how it effects society you are part of the problem.

This is true, but what consenting adults choose to do in their bedroom does not impact society.

One thing...

I believe people have the right to be a swinger. I just believe they make wrong choices of how to live thier life. I can respect your rights but not you actions.

This is true, but what consenting adults choose to do in their bedroom does not impact society.

Well, yes and no. The act itself, probably not. The mindset though is damaging.

If chikygrl ventures here, she can help me out with the details of my generalizations, but I believe that supposed "immorality" has been around since biblical times. It's as much a part of society as anything else. Sodom and Gomorrah for one. Look at the Romans and their sexual practices...orgie orgie orgie. Polygamy was soon repalced with adultery. Look at the habits of Kings and Queens alike. Henry VIII created the Protestant religion just so he could divorce Anne Boylen and marry his mistress! How noble a start for the Protestant religion than the hormones of a King? You can't say that today is any worse than before...it's just now some things are in the open that were behind closed doors before. Every culture has a flood myth to prove what happens when immorality runs wild. None of them are true and none of them served their purpose. Do you know what those "people who judge others" are doing to society now? Alienating homosexuals, fighting a war of prejudice, and making everyone cowtow to their agendas. Those "people who judge others" are the worst offenders. Lincoln wasn't against slavery, he was a racist with power who wanted African Americans deported back to Africa. Women were allowed to vote because SOMEONE needed to get elected. Civility does not equal morality.

I just believe they make wrong choices of how to live thier life

The wrong choice for you and that's okay. But you can not possibly know what the right or wrong choice for someone else is. Only the individual knows what is right or wrong for him or her.

And as far as immoral goes - they aren't hurting anybody, every one involved is consenting. So what exactly makes it immoral?

The mindset though is damaging

How? And damaging to who?

To who? How about kids for one. They only know what they are taught and see.

It is not large actions that decline society. It is chipped away by all the little things.

Look at all the 12 yr old girls running around with thongs sticking out of their low rise jeans. Do they know it is a sexual thing? No. They don't have a clue why it is stylish. I see a couple future swingers there.

Blame Brittany Spears for that one ;)

Alanna

Blame Brittany Spears for that one ;)

Alanna

I dunno, I'm torn there. Part of me agrees, the other part says blame the parents that let their daughters dress like that.

Which reminds me of one of the 93830384048 reasons why I don't want kids.

SD, you bring up an interesting point.

My question is..why get married at all?

Why not just have a best friend, and then sleep with whomever you want?

The idea of marriage is commitment and loyalty, body and soul. Where's the incentive for working through hard marital times and making it work, when it's so easy to pick up with someone else?

I embrace diversity--this is not a knock on anyone's personal lifestyle. I just don't understand what marriage means if we can just do whatever we want with whomever we want. And i'm just not buying into the whole "but i'm EMOTIONALLY committed to one person." thing. Anyone can say that...but it's our actions that prove it.

I think swinging defies marriage.

That being said, I think a lot of things defy marriage these days.

the other part says blame the parents that let their daughters dress like that.

I understand, but it is really an unfair generalization to say that swinging = bad parents who let their kids running around looking like sluts.

Do they know it is a sexual thing? No. They don't have a clue why it is stylish. I see a couple future swingers there.

Actually, some of them probably do know that it is a sexual thing, but again, that doesn't mean that they are going to grow up to be swingers.

And so what if they do? Again, it will be a choice they make for themselves about what they do in privacy with other consenting adults. This still doesn't have a negative impact on society at large. So, I am not seeing your connection here.

*High five Dolly*

If kids of swinging parents are aware of what their parents do then it SCREAMS bad parent.

I truly think parenting is getting worse. Which is another reason I don't want kids. No matter how good your raise them they can be influenced by kids raised by shitty parents.

The idea of marriage is commitment and loyalty, body and soul . . . I think swinging defies marriage.

My understanding is that commitment and loyalty exist in a swingers lifestyle, it just manifests in a different way. The way you have defined marriage is in the Western or Judeo-Christian sense - that's cool, but that is not for everyone. A lot of people do not define marriage in this way, they get married with their own idea of what that means to them - and they are in their rights to do so.

And for many people, commitment and loyalty does not translate as sexual monogomy.

Individual differences.

If kids of swinging parents are aware of what their parents do then it SCREAMS bad parent.

But you are not explaining why. You're using circular logic that isn't explaining anything.

If I have to explain why that is bad parenting then this world is in worse condition than I thought.

Anyone? Hello? Bueller?

It is my belief that if you accept everything that people do without thinking how it effects society you are part of the problem.

Only where such effectuation is via force.

Think about it, all through the centuries the people that judged others to be wrong or below them are the ones that changed the world for the better. We once had slavery. It was once illegal for women to vote. There are many things against the law now that use to be acceptable. We have progressed as humans and evolved into civilized people. I don't think some peoples genes have caught up with that yet though.

Immoral actions are a part of this.

Giddy up.


At other sites we might have been forced to me mindful of such BULLSHIT, but luckily, here, I can say - What a load of fucking CRAP.

SD, you equate swinging or BDSM with - Slavery? Lack of sufferage? ILLEGAL ACTS? You equate a freely exercised 'behavior' between consenting adults with acts where one is a forced participant / non-participant.

That's as illogiical as equating penis size with intelligence.

At other sites we might have been forced to me mindful of such BULLSHIT, but luckily, here, I can say - What a load of fucking CRAP.

SD, you equate swinging or BDSM with - Slavery? Lack of sufferage? ILLEGAL ACTS? You equate a freely exercised 'behavior' between consenting adults with acts where one is a forced participant / non-participant.

That's as illogiical as equating penis size with intelligence.

Well I leave out the you have a small penis joke then if you don't think everything has a chain reaction. What I said is 100% true. I'm sorry if you're incable of thinking past direct issue.

I think it would be only as bad as the parents make it seem. If the kids know, and the parents make it seem like it is a totally dysfunctional, unhealthy lifestyle, or that the kids have to live this lifestyle when they are adults then sure, the kids are going to grow up with some issues. But I am guessing that people who swing don't think it's dysfunctional or unhealthy (otherwise, they wouldn't be doing it) and they recognize that it is a choice. So if it is presented in a healthy way, as simply an alternative lifestyle that consenting adults choose to participate in and they let their kids know that it is by no means something they should feel they have to participate in when they are adults, then what's the problem?

I think it would be only as bad as the parents make it seem. If the kids know, and the parents make it seem like it is a totally dysfunctional, unhealthy lifestyle, or that the kids have to live this lifestyle when they are adults then sure, the kids are going to grow up with some issues. But I am guessing that people who swing don't think it's dysfunctional or unhealthy (otherwise, they wouldn't be doing it) and they recognize that it is a choice. So if it is presented in a healthy way, as simply an alternative lifestyle that consenting adults choose to participate in and they let their kids know that it is by no means something they should feel they have to participate in when they are adults, then what's the problem?

*sigh*

What I said is 100% true. I'm sorry if you're incable of thinking past direct issue.

100% true you say! Only in your mind. You presume to much. You make many false assumptions.

I guess you believe that intercourse in any other position than missionary is immoral.

I was not going to get involved with thread because I truly believe what two consenting adults do, its between them and no one else. As for the down fall of modern society, I think it's about time, we need to shake things up and make progress.
As for bad parenting, one should not comment if not a parent! Having raised two children, one girl 20 and a boy now 17, I know that I have done a great job. It's not because they make mistakes like all people do, its because the mistakes they made or make, they attempt to correct them or at least not make them again. They are not my puppets to pull their strings and make dance to my tune, but it was my job to teach them right or wrong and to let them hear the tune that they need to follow. That's the beauty of being a human being and not an animal where concepts and change are not the norm, just the same routine till you die. If you're afraid to have kids, then the real doubt lies within you and your ability to translate your life and teachings to your kids and make them believe in themselves. Thats the real downfall.

100% true you say! Only in your mind. You presume to much. You make many false assumptions.

I guess you believe that intercourse in any other position than missionary is immoral.

If you paid attention instead of assuming things (wait, did you just accuse me of that?) you'd see that I said it's not the act of sex, it's the mindset. Supporting behaviour like that is unacceptable to me. Why? Because it contirbutes to the lack morals in our society, which you already outted yourself for being incapable of seeing.

do not let Rosie hear about the other postions, might give her idea's:p

SD, I am asking you to explain your logic. It is not enough to simply say in different ways that swingers are bad parents.

From what I understand the only reason you think this is because you think swinging is immoral. But people who have done "immoral" things can make wonderful parents, even if their kids know that they have done those things.

I was not going to get involved with thread because I truly believe what two consenting adults do, its between them and no one else. As for the down fall of modern society, I think it's about time, we need to shake things up and make progress.
As for bad parenting, one should not comment if not a parent! Having raised two children, one girl 20 and a boy now 17, I know that I have done a great job. It's not because they make mistakes like all people do, its because the mistakes they made or make, they attempt to correct them or at least not make them again. They are not my puppets to pull their strings and make dance to my tune, but it was my job to teach them right or wrong and to let them hear the tune that they need to follow. That's the beauty of being a human being and not an animal where concepts and change are not the norm, just the same routine till you die. If you're afraid to have kids, then the real doubt lies within you and your ability to translate your life and teachings to your kids and make them believe in themselves. Thats the real downfall.

Non parents can't comment? Oh, so people who don't have kids don't ever have to deal with shitty kids from the result of bad parenting? That makes that statement null and void.

I'm sure there are kids that come out shitty from good parents. But lets be realistic here. Everyone knows the major majority come from shitty parents.

But thanks for letting me know why I don't want kids. I thought its because I truly hate kids and always have. But I guess I was wrong.

SD, I am asking you to explain your logic. It is not enough to simply say in different ways that swingers are bad parents.

From what I understand the only reason you think this is because you think swinging is immoral. But people who have done "immoral" things can make wonderful parents, even if their kids know that they have done those things.

I've explained it all. I think swinging is a horrible lifestyle, I don't care how you candy coat the reasons why you do it, I believe it is disgusting. Therefore teaching kids that it's ok is bad parenting.

Define your definition of "shitty kids". You seem to be stuck with that saying and makes one wonder if your blaming your parents for your mistakes or outcome in life.

Define your definition of "shitty kids". You seem to be stuck with that saying and makes one wonder if your blaming your parents for your mistakes or outcome in life.

Jesus, can you people assume any more?

Why couldn't my parents have been excellent roll models that passed down great morals?

Supporting behaviour like that is unacceptable to me. Why? Because it contirbutes to the lack morals in our society, which you already outted yourself for being incapable of seeing.

Unacceptable to you - fine. No problem with what is acceptable or not to you.

Sex in other than missionary is devient. It is wrong. It is immoral. There was once a time where even the RCC agreed with my assertion. Does that make me correct?

You are sure holier than thou SD.

"you already outted yourself for being incapable of seeing." - Well done SD, well done. I'm incapable of seeing, therefore you become correct as I am the one at fault for not seeing your wisdom. If I 'could see' the correctnes of your argument I'd be in agreement - therefore SD is correct.

When one must prove one's assertions by such BS, one has lost the argument.

One thing is for sure, I've stirred up some shit.

hellodolly
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05:24 PM Salt
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Unacceptable to you - fine. No problem with what is acceptable or not to you.

Sex in other than missionary is devient. It is wrong. It is immoral. There was once a time where even the RCC agreed with my assertion. Does that make me correct?

You are sure holier than thou SD.

"you already outted yourself for being incapable of seeing." - Well done SD, well done. I'm incapable of seeing, therefore you become correct as I am the one at fault for not seeing your wisdom. If I 'could see' the correctnes of your argument I'd be in agreement - therefore SD is correct.

When one must prove one's assertions by such BS, one has lost the argument.


I have lost no arguement to you, thats for sure. Sorry, but your attempt to jump on that high horse was lost to me.

I think swinging is a horrible lifestyle, I don't care how you candy coat the reasons why you do it, I believe it is disgusting. Therefore teaching kids that it's ok is bad parenting.

***sigh*** There's that circular logic again. You haven't explained anything. Just that you feel it is immoral, disgusting, and wrong. And those aren't explanations - those are opinions. And you are entitled to them.

I was just hoping you would actually give me some of examples of how swinging could have such a detrimental impact on kids and society to back up your opinions.

Great rolemodels and moral teachers very possible. "Shitty kids" is your concept alone and that is what frightens me.

actually I was not home.

and since i started it I'm the one that stired it up.


and now i'm going to go get out of my going to a funeral clothes, start some chili and come back and plow through the answers with my responses.

Because I AM a parent. I have a son nearly 22 who is fine. I have a son 19 who is at his second year at Drexel University and cute as a bug and moral and ethical to a fault. and I have a 13 yr old step daughter that lives with us who is not allowed to call boys or wear belly shirts or crop tops or thongs, who does not cuss, who does chores, who respects adults, who gets decent grades, and who is essentially a healthy happy child.

I will address deeply the whole issue that swingers are bad parents.

it is bullshit.


i think people that drink are bad parents. how's that for a similar statement. (not that i do but it will be part of my arguement)

This thread is proof that right and wrong is being won by wrong.

Do anyone seriously not see society going to shit? It's easy to ignore it, but stop and think.

You sure did stir up some shit, SD. 87 replies to this thread.

Was that your plan all along? ;)

actually I was not home.

and since i started it I'm the one that stired it up.


and now i'm going to go get out of my going to a funeral clothes, start some chili and come back and plow through the answers with my responses.

Because I AM a parent. I have a son nearly 22 who is fine. I have a son 19 who is at his second year at Drexel University and cute as a bug and moral and ethical to a fault. and I have a 13 yr old step daughter that lives with us who is not allowed to call boys or wear belly shirts or crop tops or thongs, who does not cuss, who does chores, who respects adults, who gets decent grades, and who is essentially a healthy happy child.

I will address deeply the whole issue that swingers are bad parents.

it is bullshit.


i think people that drink are bad parents. how's that for a similar statement. (not that i do but it will be part of my arguement)


Just so you don't get all excited for a reply from me, you won't get one. I'm not fueling your disgusting ideas.

Sure, I think in some ways it is going to shit, but it's not because there are swingers in the world. :rolleyes:

You sure did stir up some shit, SD. 87 replies to this thread.

Was that your plan all along? ;)

No, I'm just stubborn as fuck. Can you tell?

Just so you don't get all excited for a reply from me, you won't get one. I'm not fueling your disgusting ideas.

OH GOOD LORD SD! Was that necessary???

OH GOOD LORD SD! Was that necessary???

Actually, very much so.

I have lost no arguement to you, thats for sure.

You, and I, are not the judge of that.

Anyway, people might posit, argue if you will, that smoking in front of children is immoral as they are condoning smoking - a potential lethal act. Applied to drinking - and we have so many DWIs out there. Bad parents. Fat kids > McDonalds etc... BAD PARENTS FOR TAKING THEM THERE. Feeding their kids junk food.

Parents arguing in front of the kids - teaching them how to disrespect one another. Bad Parents.

Well, then I guess I should stop fueling your bigoted, hateful ideas . . .

plus I gotta' go study.

Sure, I think in some ways it is going to shit, but it's not because there are swingers in the world. :rolleyes:

No SHIT! Moon. I agree. It is going to shit, but it ain't BDSM or swinging that's doing it. That stuff, like gays, has been around for centuries.

You, and I, are not the judge of that.

Anyway, people might posit, argue if you will, that smoking in front of children is immoral as they are condoning smoking - a potential lethal act. Applied to drinking - and we have so many DWIs out there. Bad parents. Fat kids > McDonalds etc... BAD PARENTS FOR TAKING THEM THERE. Feeding their kids junk food.

Parents arguing in front of the kids - teaching them how to disrespect one another. Bad Parents.

Works with me.

I know parenting is not easy. And I have a lot of respect for parents that truly give it their all. But how many parents out there either don't try at all or half ass try then defend to their graves how good of parents they are? Way too many if you ask me.

Well, then I guess I should stop fueling your bigoted, hateful ideas . . .

plus I gotta' go study.

If only more people thought as good as I do.

Just so you don't get all excited for a reply from me, you won't get one. I'm not fueling your disgusting ideas.


if you didn't care about me you would have me on ignore and not read my stuff


besides there is NOTHING about you that excites me

Actually, very much so.


why was it?

Ugh, why did I come back in here?

The dfinition of a good, strong, healthy relationship is not a monogomous sex life. There are plenty of people in monogamous (yes I know I am swithcing my spelling cuz I am too lazy to figure out which is right) relationships/marriages who hate everything else about their partner.

I too equate sex with love, devotion, and intimacy. My boyfriend views sex as something for pleasure. That's it. I've come to accept it, cuz I cannot change it. He respects me enough to have sex ONLY with me... but he definitely has the "IT'S JUST SEX" mentality... because he DOESN'T feel love and intimacy while having it.

He feels his dick getting off.

So how is a good marriage and a strong relationship directly related to being sexually faithful when BOTH people don't think it's important and think that trust and honesty are more important. It would probably help the world if everyone were that honest... instead of all the fuckers who fuck other people but just do it behind their partner's back.


I also don't agree that a swinger makes a bad parent. There are a million people out there who do far shittier things to their kids besides swing. Sex is really something that is done behind closed doors. Your kids shouldn't know about your sex life. They shouldn't see the swinging part of your lifestyle... but the honesty and trust and strong bond... that would hopefully carry over... and I think, swinging beside, more kids should be lucky enough to have parents with that kind of strong relationship.

Which reminds me of one of the 93830384048 reasons why I don't want kids.

What are the other 93830384047 reasons?

You should have kids SD, so that you might father and raise those whom shall lead us back into righteousness.

Then again, with what is being taught in schools and the government's position on the raising of their 'child', your kid just might turn out to be gay, or wear thongs at age 13, or SD forbid - even an 'inmate'.

if you didn't care about me you would have me on ignore and not read my stuff


besides there is NOTHING about you that excites me

Best post in this thread.

Done.

And damn, an ugly fat swinger isn't excited by me. This might lead me back to drinking.

What are the other 93830384047 reasons?

You should have kids SD, so that you might father and raise those whom shall lead us back into righteousness.

Then again, with what is being taught in schools and the government's position on the raising of their 'child', your kid just might turn out to be gay, or wear thongs at age 13, or SD forbid - even an 'inmate'.

You're right. I can't believe people still chose to have kids knowing this.

some dude

so fucking not necessary

some dude

so fucking not necessary

I'm sorry but she disgusts me.

Believe it or not I'm holding back.

I'm still here too :o Just can't help myself because these are too funny:

You should have kids SD, so that you might father and raise those whom shall lead us back into righteousness.

He feels his dick getting off.

LMAO!!!

OK here we go:

I'm sorry for creating a mess here. I figured if folks were interested in BDSM they might be interested in other alternative lifestyles.


however, I don't RUN away, nor will I delete this thread. I'm a huge believer in the belief that intolerance should be seen. I'm a huge believer in letting people hang themselves.


that being said:

if i was not a swinger nor a bisexual, my sex life would not be any more of my stepdaughter's or sons business than it is now which i ZERO.

WHY in the world would ANY parent discuss their sex life with their kids?

that being said I think that to equate alternative life style choices with bad parenting is insane and also again just an ignorant blanket statement.

How many girls of "good" parents SNEAK out of the house and get into trouble.. MY stepdaughter does not. why not? because she KNOWS she can come to us and talk to us about anything. WHY? because we are good involved loving parents and our swing friends are deeply involved and care about what happens to her.

trust me she hates a bad report card... not only does MOMMA nessa get on her, so does daddy and so do all her 'aunts' and 'uncles' (our swing friends who know and love her)......

as far as she knows they are just close friends of ours who eat at our house who watch movies at our house, who go racing with us, who shop with us, who do all the things YOU do with your friends as non-swingers.....

I think I'm actually a great parent as is my husband...

do you really think she SEES or knows about my sex life? or that she cares?

I'm sorry but she disgusts me.

Believe it or not I'm holding back.

This is how forums end up being moderated. There really is no need to hurl insults. You can have your opinions, but have some fucking tact while sharing them.

This is how forums end up being moderated. There really is no need to hurl insults. You can have your opinions, but have some fucking tact while sharing them.


Let him go Moon. He attacks me because his arguements don't hold water and it's all he has. I'm not hurt or bothered by it. I Much prefer unmoderated forums where the TRUE colors of people can come out.

This is how forums end up being moderated. There really is no need to hurl insults. You can have your opinions, but have some fucking tact while sharing them.
Where's the fun in that?

I wish more people told it like it is.

It's not SD's fault. SD, you are one confused dude. But that's ok. I defend your right to be confused.

Up unitl the 60's, I considered this country to be a fairly moral one. The slavery issue of the 1800's I discount as obvious. Women's sufferage is arguable, as is most politically motivated points of view.

Prior to the 60's there were gays, swingers, BDSM, etc. Question is - What opened the closet door? Who or what let Pandora out?

I have the answer in so much as I beleive it to be the answer. It stems from one primary source, but can be seen via a 10 plank political platform.

I'm sorry but she disgusts me.

Believe it or not I'm holding back.


Well, you could hold back more. You're a fucking adult.

WHY on EARTH do you let something that doesn't hurt ANYONE disgust you to the point where you make stupid, 8th grade insults?

Just because opinions differ, and that is the WONDERFUL thing about discussion and disagreements... why DO you make it personal instead of sticking to the topic. I really DID think you were capable of holding a heated discussion without resorting to that. There are far worse people in this world than Nessa, who do much worse things.

She's not causing the downfall of human society. She has made a LIFESTYLE choice.

This board is great because people can speak their minds. And it's great because people can disagree... but people aren't going to want to say anything when you drag crappy personal insults into every thread you disagree with.

People who are insecure in themsleves find that attacking one's looks makes them a better person. Having seen your picture, that kills other wifes tale.

It's not SD's fault. SD, you are one confused dude. But that's ok. I defend your right to be confused.

Up unitl the 60's, I considered this country to be a fairly moral one. The slavery issue of the 1800's I discount as obvious. Women's sufferage is arguable, as is most politically motivated points of view.

Prior to the 60's there were gays, swingers, BDSM, etc. Question is - What opened the closet door? Who or what let Pandora out?

I have the answer in so much as I beleive it to be the answer. It stems from one primary source, but can be seen via a 10 plank political platform.

You have one false sense of superiority. You think that if you don't question other peoples actions that makes you better than I am. I say it makes you quite sad.

Where's the fun in that?



Ahhhhhhhh! So, your just baiting for fun.

Your parents should be slapped. :D

People who are insecure in themsleves find that attacking one's looks makes them a better person. Having seen your picture, that kills other wifes tale.

And those who don't have balls always say that.

Ahhhhhhhh! So, your just baiting for fun.

Your parents should be slapped. :D

My dad for sure, lousy bastard.

Yet I still came out shining.

You have one false sense of superiority. You think that if you don't question other peoples actions that makes you better than I am. I say it makes you quite sad.

You're not questioning her actions. FROM THE GET-GO, you have just insulted them. HUGE difference.

do we have a popcorn smilie? :popcorn: one of my faves to sit back and see what happens.



my mom always said... give him enough rope and he hangs himself.....


let him go....this is funnnn wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

My dad for sure, lousy bastard.




NOW we're getting somewhere!

You're not questioning her actions. FROM THE GET-GO, you have just insulted them. HUGE difference.

Yet the final results are the same.

Not everyone walks the same path.

Amen to this
I Much prefer unmoderated forums where the TRUE colors of people can come out.
and this
SD, you are one confused dude.

NOW we're getting somewhere!

So then single parents are shit?

Yet the final results are the same.

Not everyone walks the same path.
Yes, but you contradict your own opinions... which makes it difficult to take anything you say at face value.

I'd like to formally ask that you all ignore his insults to me.


I'm NOT bothered by them. I see him for what he is. I just hope everyone else learns from this.....


unmoderated forums work well with adults I belong to 3 of them NO ONE has ever been moderated and we are all happy and we all agree to disagree too.

Yes yes, I'm so confused. I have a different outlook and you're bashing. Just like you're telling me I'm doing. Who's confused?

Yes, but you contradict your own opinions... which makes it difficult to take anything you say at face value.

All is fair in love and war.

Well, except swinging.

Please tell me someone has me on ignore by now.

So then single parents are shit?


yes. Single parenting is the most awful thing you can do to a kid. All single parents should be shot. The kids should be adopted into a monogomous heterosexual 2-parent home and be brought to church every Sunday. Then the world would be a much better place.

yes. Single parenting is the most awful thing you can do to a kid. All single parents should be shot. The kids should be adopted into a monogomous heterosexual 2-parent home and be brought to church every Sunday. Then the world would be a much better place.

I was with you till the church part. that's just cruel.

I have no doubt that you aren't bothered by them cause you are a confident woman nessa.

yes. Single parenting is the most awful thing you can do to a kid. All single parents should be shot. The kids should be adopted into a monogomous heterosexual 2-parent home and be brought to church every Sunday. Then the world would be a much better place.



your 100% right dear...... where shall I send the check....



this is so good.

yes. Single parenting is the most awful thing you can do to a kid. All single parents should be shot. The kids should be adopted into a monogomous heterosexual 2-parent home and be brought to church every Sunday. Then the world would be a much better place.

ROTFLMFAO

I have no doubt that you aren't bothered by them cause you are a confident woman nessa.


thank you Moon... from you that's an incredible compliment, i've always liked and respected your posts....

I just feel bad that all of you have to become disillusioned by the troll like behavioir of your friend.

I have no doubt that you aren't bothered by them cause you are a confident woman nessa

hey what happened to the rest of my post???

hey what happened to the rest of my post???



that's all I saw sweetie.

You have one false sense of superiority. You think that if you don't question other peoples actions that makes you better than I am. I say it makes you quite sad.

I'm 52 SD. Been around the block. I'm educated. I read alot. I also question many people actions. I question yours, here. I question how you acquired your sense of superiority in your morality. I question your ability to be cognitive in your thinking. I have many questions. But I also have formed an opinion, which I consider to be obvious:

You can be such a fucking idiot. You evidently have no sense of history. You are shallow. You are insecure.

My dad for sure, lousy bastard.

Yet I still came out shining.

You still came out shining? How can that be? Unless your whole argument is BULLSHIT - which as I said it is.....

Glad your ok. :eek:

Thanks Nessa, that was a really nice compliment!

Friend? This is the first time I've talked to him.

The rest of my post said that you are an awesome person is intelligent enough to know that all of his posts are completely ignorant and full of shit! :D

I'm 52 SD. Been around the block. I'm educated. I read alot. I also question many people actions. I question yours, here. I question how you acquired your sense of superiority in your morality. I question your ability to be cognitive in your thinking. I have many questions. But I also have formed an opinion, which I consider to be obvious:

You can be such a fucking idiot. You evidently have no sense of history. You are shallow. You are insecure.

There you go again, assuming it all. I assume you'll do that some more and I assume I'll laugh at you again.

I love how you call me shallow and insecure because I stand up for my beliefs. Everyone that stand up for what they know is right just has to be shallow and insecure. It just makes so much sense.

Now back to my game...

http://www.echotrips.com/middle-salmon/images/fishing-full.jpg

Please tell me someone has me on ignore by now.

I think SD is playing a game.....

TROLLING!

You still came out shining? How can that be? Unless your whole argument is BULLSHIT - which as I said it is.....

Glad your ok. :eek:

Again, a single parent can't raise a good kid?

yes. Single parenting is the most awful thing you can do to a kid. All single parents should be shot. The kids should be adopted into a monogomous heterosexual 2-parent home and be brought to church every Sunday. Then the world would be a much better place.

Actually, that's not a bad statement there Ski. Won't happen, but the statement has merit. JMO.

I think SD is playing a game.....

TROLLING!

I think so too salt.

I think SD is playing a game.....

TROLLING!

Honestly, I believe 100% that swinging is disgusting. But since about page 2 this was all for fun.

I win!!

Now I must excuse myself cause I'm really freakin hungry.

And Naya said I had to stop.

Again, a single parent can't raise a good kid?

A single parent can. More difficult, but the answer is yes.

Again, a single parent can't raise a good kid?

HELL NO!!! What kind of morals would that teach? Those kids would grow up to be single parents and then before you know it . . . the downfall of society.

:rolleyes:

A single parent can. More difficult, but the answer is yes.

Agreed.

HELL NO!!! What kind of morals would that teach? Those kids would grow up to be single parents and then before you know it . . . the downfall of society.

:rolleyes:

GOD DAMN DIVORCE!!!!

Honestly, I believe 100% that swinging is disgusting. But since about page 2 this was all for fun.

I win!!

Now I must excuse myself cause I'm really freakin hungry.

And Naya said I had to stop.

So you were having fun throwing out all those nasty insults?

hmmm . . . that's a little twisted for me . . .

So you were having fun throwing out all those nasty insults?

hmmm . . . that's a little twisted for me . . .

Hey! I'm a lovable asshole!

see that's why he put me on ignore.... it would be WORK to talk to me. because i won't play his game.

he's a troll pure and simple... and he's here to make trouble pure and simple.

sadly that's how folks get sucked in.


there were people over at ageless a long long time ago that were mean and nasty off boards but sweetness and light on board because it was moderated and only a few of us could SEE the truth.

I visit another forum where there is one like SD. He regularly gets his ass handed to him, but he is entertaining.

Trolls are fun. Like squishing chocolate pudding through your teeth - of absolutely no value, but fun.:D

Hey! I'm a lovable asshole!
:rolleyes:

Just do me a favor - next time don't play your sick and twisted little game for so damn long . . .
I HAVE WORK TO DO DAMNIT!!! :D

I won't IGGY him, I'll just ignore him:D

he's a troll pure and simple... and he's here to make trouble pure and simple.

sadly that's how folks get sucked in.

Yeah, and end up wasting their whole freaking day on it - like me. :rolleyes:

I won't IGGY him, I'll just ignore him:D

me too salt... it's much more entertaining that way


he's a lightweight...


I was trolling USENET over a dozen years ago.

I hoped you were fuckin around! I kinda like ya, you summa bitch ;) Apologize to Nessa though, personal attacks are not cool :(

Alanna

I think I'm actually a great parent as is my husband...

You ARE great parents, and *I* know this first hand. I know the 13 year old girl child and she is wonderful, intelligent, well balanced, open and a very sweet girl. She and I had a couple very interesting open conversations about BOYS and dressing provacatively and how it makes you look easy and trashy and she didn't want that kind of attention. I adore the girl. She's terrific. And terrific with my kids.

Nessa, hon... I adore ya. ;)
~phos

PS. Salt, you never, ever, ever cease to make a truly logical and hilarious running commentary. LOL. Add a few more ~ ~ ~ for me, though. ROFLAO

You ARE great parents, and *I* know this first hand. I know the 13 year old girl child and she is wonderful, intelligent, well balanced, open and a very sweet girl. She and I had a couple very interesting open conversations about BOYS and dressing provacatively and how it makes you look easy and trashy and she didn't want that kind of attention. I adore the girl. She's terrific. And terrific with my kids.

Nessa, hon... I adore ya. ;)
~phos


thanks phos.... that means a ton to me.

i adore you too... and you can help parent my children any time you like...

I heard my name!!!
I am being called for something!

In this coner wighing in at .... the beautiful, talented and opinionate NESSA!!!
(crowd roars!)

In the other corner wighing in at .... the equaly opiniated lover of dogs (and Naya) SOME DUDE!!!!!!
(Crowd roars!)

(SO NOT TAKING SIDES ON THIS ONE!!!!!!!!!!)

But it's gettin to be like celebrity death match in here!!

Basically it all comes down to this...
what you do in the PRIVACY of your own homes is your own damn business!
I am not in the business of telling people how to live thier lives (yet another reason I cherish Roe v. Wade) I don't want the government telling me what I can and cannot do with my own body. I don't want my friends, family, peers ANYBODY!!

If people want to engage in swinging lifestyle that is between them, their spouse (or SO) and GOD!! Oh and the people they swing with.
As long as protection is being used and nobody is passing on rather wretched disesases, oh and as long as you have a vague idea on who the father of any children might be, than it's your own damn business.

now Lanner what was your question?

I was going to get into some historical examples of immorality and didn't want to be wrong, but it's a moot point now, SD was just screwin around :)

Alanna

Trolling is immoral.:eek:

:D

thanks phos.... that means a ton to me.

i adore you too... and you can help parent my children any time you like...

Right backatcha, hon. You counsel ME when I'm having a bad moment. I definitely trust you with my KIDS. :D I knew, absolutely knew, that I could just TALK to the girlchild along with my lil cousin and you wouldn't mind anything I said.

Honesty with them at that age is ALWAYS the best approach. If they ask, they shall hear the answer.

~phos

so should I start a NEW thread to discuss this like adults?

Salt isn't immoral enough... he didn't ~ ~ ~ me. :( LOL
~phos

No Nessa... let this be. That's what I think, anyway. ;)

dinner table the other nite

brian almost choked as she asked


MOMMY can you get pregnant swallowing SPERM???


after he caught his breath and swallowed he asked "WHY do you want to know?".


I told him "kids talk now chiill"

and i told her

NO you can't but YOU can get pregnant from unprotected anal sex.... and we ran off on that topic and explained about safe sex and all that other stuff.


ah the joys of being comfortable in my own skin....

~Phossy:D

Was that as good for as it was for me?

(Shut the fuck up Rosie. *jealous bitch*)

No wonder people aren't responding to my kitty kat thread in Chit Chat--you guys are all in here hurling mud at each other!

Now at the risk of possibly having to eat my words in front of Phossy some day, I still stand by my no moderation policy. Actually, I wouldn't even have seen this thread if Some Dude and Nessa had not PM'ed me to apologize for trashing the board. My answer is: you guys haven't, so fuggedaboudit.

When I read this thread, here's what I see:

1) Nessa likes swinging.
2) Some Dude does not like swinging.
3) Most people here do not like swinging.
4) Most people here do not like how Some Dude expresses his dislike of swinging.

End of story.

I wanna run this board like one big Italian gangsta family--we fight, we make up, we have cannoli.
Capiche? ;)

Now I wish y'all would just let me have the last word on this, but if someone else here absolutely, 100%, positively, will-die-if-they-don't, MUST have the last word, then go ahead. Just make sure it's a real doozy cuz it's going down in MTaG history. :D

so should I start a NEW thread to discuss this like adults?

You can try, but the children will find us;)

~Phossy:D

Was that as good for as it was for me?

(Shut the fuck up Rosie. *jealous bitch*)

*swoon ~ falls over* OH thank you, Salt... it means much more to me than you can imagine. :eek: Litical's gonna have to spank me for that one, but... *ahem*

THATS OKAY!

*swoons again as she looks back up*

~phos

You can try, but the children will find us;)



BEST. POST. EVER. (at least on this thread)

*swoon ~ falls over* OH thank you, Salt... it means much more to me than you can imagine. :eek: Litical's gonna have to spank me for that one, but... *ahem*

THATS OKAY!

*swoons again as she looks back up*

~phos


ummm 'cuse me that's a different thread.

:eek: *looks sheepish* Sorry Nessa... :D YA KNOW I LOVE YOU THO RIGHT? :D

~phos

Hell, my best friend through HS and college was gay, but he was still probably one of the coolest people EVER... his choice is his choice.

totally off subject but were you saying he chose to be gay


PS. i have nothing against swingers, a good friend of mine is a swinger actually as well as an escort, shes married with 4 kids. to each his own i guess. not something i would be into though- im way to insecure:p

totally off subject but were you saying he chose to be gay

Are you saying he didn't? NOT trying to start an argument or anything, as it is seriously a debatable issue ~ but back in the day in my college art department, I can tell ya, there were a LOT of people who CHOSE to be gay... for a while. :confused: Then chose to be straight. It was weird. But, I'm definitely not convinced that people are just born that way. Just too many things to factor into the equation for it to be that simple.

~phos

oh well my brother told me one day

'don't you think if i could choose it i would have a wife a station wagon, a white picket fence and 2.5 kids?"

he most diefinately did not choose to be gay

I think my work is done here.

I do apologize for the nasty remarks nessa, but I'm standing my ground on my beliefs.

Anyone wanna make out?

Hmm, I can feel another argument building....I think there's both out there. I know gay people that choose it...they like the lifestyle. BUT, in my experience, the majority of gays I know don't choose it, and would much rather be "normal" and fit in like everyone else. One guy in particular I know, I feel sorry for. He hates the gay bar scene and just wants a clean, healthy partner...kinda like what most people want...but he's been single for over 10 years (and not with ANYONE) because it's hard to find someone in day to day life - and he's the sweetest guy around.

*ducks out before mud starts flying*

I think my work is done here.


Anyone wanna make out?

With a TROLL?

Ewwwwwwwwwwww, gross.:p

With a TROLL?

Ewwwwwwwwwwww, gross.:p

You wouldn't say that if I was a gay troll.

Hmm, I can feel another argument building....I think there's both out there. I know gay people that choose it...they like the lifestyle. BUT, in my