Men and 'Are You OK?'

Have anybody else come across this?

Men sometimes go into themselves and become quiet - and then when you ask them if they're OK, they avoid to respond?

If you have, what do you think is the reason for this reluctance to accept support? (The old 'I'm-a-man-I-can-fix-my-own-problems' perhaps?)

Do you think there's a better way to find out what's bothering them?

SHOULD we try to find out what's bothering them?

I'm in a situation like that just now. I don't know what to do or say to him.

(Please bear in mind, all, that while the man I'm writing about is still married, we have not cheated physically and I do not intend to out of consideration to his wife, kids, himself and me. It's a long and complicated story (Emzak can verify!), but the bottom line is that while I can't switch of my love for him, he is also my best friend and I want to help and support him)

I typically could not wait for your advice, but instead just sent a text to him saying that I was worried because he's so quiet. Asked him to tell me if I'd said or done something so he doesn't want to talk to me. Said I want to be supportive but want to know how. Told him to be blunt if he has to.

:eek:

Someone chop my fingers off! I don't know how many times I've regretted sending a text in the heat of the moment.

I hope the text is acceptable...

I still would love to hear what you think about the above questions.

wow hard situation.

if it's my best friend i'd react one way
if it's my lover, psuedolover or quasilover or a man i want to be my lover i react totally differently....


men that can have best friends as women have the ability to think like women and not go into the cave at least not for long.

remember men won't tell you their problems since they figure we tell them ours to have them fix them not just to vent.

i hope it works out.

Whilst trying to avoid generalizations about the sexes, in cases of emotion, men tend to internalize to work through them while women need to externalize to work through them.

For example... Litical can come home and have had a bad day and really just need SPACE to internalize and work through whatever issues he had. Of course this worries me, because my natural instinct is to vent and want to talk through my issues. But, we're both getting use to the way each other deals with these kinds of issues.

You, of course, are in a very different position and I'm sorry you're in such a a position, to be honest. It must be heart wrenching on many levels, but I respect your ability to hold back from the physical aspect. I think sometimes its very hard to distinguish the various kinds of love, and I promise, I'll avoid any tirade or negativity if at all possible.

But I feel that if you truly do love him as a "friend," you'll back away gracefully and let him come to whatever decisions he needs to make with his life, because its obvious you love him MORE than a friend... and maybe doing so would force him to have to make an actual decision, instead of leaving YOU in limbo... waiting... holding off on the vast beauty available to you in life that you deny yourself, by denying yourself the ability to open up and love someone who is available to you?

I really don't mean any of that negatively. God knows, I hope you don't take it that way ~ cuz I DO respect your strength... and I know the grip love can hold over a person.

While I don't think your text was out of line, he's obviously torn between you and his wife and children... and thats a LOT to internalize and I while I can't comprehend what's going on in his mind, he's got to know it can't go on forever. You've got to know this, too.

Anyway, sorry if anything I said was unwarranted or not what you wanted to hear, cuz I'm not hatin' on ya. I know what its like to be in limbo ~ and that's by far the worst place to be.

~phos

Thanks both of you. I had hoped I would never get myself into a situation such as this and every day I wish it had never happened. Love can be cruel.

Phos, I agree that the worst place to be is to be in limbo. I've been there for too long, but I have not pushed him for a desicion since I don't want him to choose me over something else (and neither does he). If he chooses to leave, it should ideally be because of his failing exisiting relationship (mutually contributed). They had in fact decided to split up when an unforseen family thing happened four months ago.

Now he's been quiet since before the weekend, that has never happened before. I can only assume an important choice is being made. Whatever it is, I will respect that he decides what is best for him. I am looking forward to getting out of the limbo, but I'm prepared for the worst (worst for me) and years of heartache ahead (I have been in love once and it took me 5 yrs to get over it). But I'm aching now anyway. It's been so tough, I have cried so much lately, which is not typical of me. Uncertainty is horrible.

I thought your post was very respectful and understanding yet grounded. Thanks for your input.

He texted me now and apologised for being quiet. A wife of a friend of his got a letter saying her husband had cheated. Nobody knows whether it was true or not, but their lives exploded. I think he's in kind of a shock, he's realising what he's potentially facing. He needs some time to decide what to do, like he said 'this is doing neither of us any good'.

I replied saying thanks for telling me. I also said that though I love him, I won't text him again if he needs space - I can wait. But if he loves his wife, he owes it to her to cut me off completely. Finally asked him to tell me if that's what he decides, or I'll be waiting forever.

I feel a big finale coming up. :(

:hug: do we hug here?


I know it's hard but you know it' might be for the best....


after all (and this is harsh)

if he leaves his wife for you and you get married someone could come up to you and say "congratulations you now are married to a man who cheats on his wife".... do you want to always look over your shoulder?

He needs some time to decide what to do, like he said 'this is doing neither of us any good'.

Now, this is probably the fairest thing he could have said and SO true, Marianna.

Your reply was tactful and graceful and you're doing the right thing to give him space.

But if he loves his wife, he owes it to her to cut me off completely. Finally asked him to tell me if that's what he decides, or I'll be waiting forever.


It's really a good thing you asked... you deserve more than to wait "forever."

I'm sendin' ya a big ole (((((((((((HUG))))))))))) too... Damn limbo!!! I'll say a prayer that you get an answer SOONER than later.

~phos

Thank you so much for your prayers. If I get hurt, it is my own fault for having this emotional affair. I just hope he ends up happy and does what's best for him and his family, whatever that may be.

I am a mess right now and I will be for a long time, I think. I just hope that he'll make up his mind because this is torture. It would not surprise me if he lets me go, despite all the things he has said. His young son is so important to him and he's afraid to lose him (his ex wife refused him to see his two older kids for years, and he's now just starting to get to know them again, one moved in with him to escape her mother). There has been a severe lack of physical and social contact for years in his marriage, but he did love her enough to marry her once. Perhaps he wants to try to save what he has instead of risking it all on a much younger woman. Better one heart broken than a whole family.

I just read this whole thread and I'm so sorry you're going through this! (((((((((HUGS))))))))))

One thing I noticed is that you have said several times how you wish he'll decide soon so you won't be stuck in limbo and feeling tortured. My question is why does HE have all the cards here? Why is HE the one who gets to choose what YOUR future path will be? I think this is what bothers me about the whole situation--much more than the fact that he's married.

You deserve someone who will do everything in his power to ENSURE that he snags you, because he just can't BEAR the thought of you being won over by another man. You deserve someone who doesn't have to think twice about this--he KNOWS he wants you and he HAS to have you or else he'll curl up in a corner like a sad puppy dog.

You are such a sweet person that any guy will be lucky to have you!

One thing I noticed is that you have said several times how you wish he'll decide soon so you won't be stuck in limbo and feeling tortured. My question is why does HE have all the cards here? Why is HE the one who gets to choose what YOUR future path will be?

I know, you're right. I kind of felt that I was making a move the last time I communicated with him by saying that he should cut me off if he wanted to stay in his current family situation. After all, he made no indication of wanting to STOP communicating with me. Of course, I could say that I'll walk if he can't make up his mind - should I? I just don't know if I could go through with it. If he knew what he wanted, he would have told me by now, he knows I'm hurting. I don't know which of us is more confused and scared...

I don't think this is about choosing between his wife and me, it's about losing me or messing up his family. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't know what I'd do.

Emzak, you have been a great support through this. Do you have any suggestions for what I should do?

Hi Marianna,
I can completely feel your pain right now. Completely!....Think about this for a second..... What has the "friendship" part of your relationship done for you, and for him?....

Don't everyone jump all over me for this BUT..... I truly do not believe that we can soley love only one person for our entire life. Everyone is different and people cross our paths with a different outlook that we may have never seen before and may never see again.

My advice/thoughts: Leave the "relationship" alone and build on the friendship. You won't lose as much sleep knowing that he is still in your life but on a different level. The relationship will build with the friendship and he will then figure out for himself exactly where the two of you stand.

I think its a cheap reply (with no disrespect to your OM - Ive been told the same thing) when he said this isnt good for either of us. Well, NO it's not good for either of you to live in limbo, but obviously something in the beginning made the relation worth while to both of you.....The friendship side of your relation will bring you back to what started it all...... Choices will then come naturally.

Just my opinion.....if ya'll don't agree - shoot me where I stand.

I wish you luck!

I don't agree with you, CeeJay, but I won't shoot you. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But specifically where you say that you don't think anyone can love just one person, I know you're dead wrong. Flat out dead wrong. My grandparents loved eachother their whole life ~ and my grampa mourned nanny's death for the remaining 12 years of his life. My parents have been together almost 44 years (since my mom was 19) and love each other DEEPLY to this day and only struggled through OUR teen years, but never a cheating episode on either side. Whether to be monogomous or polyamourous is YOUR choice. As it is everyones individual choice. I don't believe polyamourous relationships work. I've never seen a successful example where jealousy, insecurity and ugliness isn't a constant component.

Now, as to the OP, hon.. you need to grow a backbone and stand up for what YOU want. Screw him. He's got a family and he KNOWS he's got you and can string you along, because you don't have a sense of self. You know I'm not trying to be mean.. but, YES, you should say JUST THAT to him.

Your life. YOUR choice.
~phos

Thanks for your replies. Our friendship has been the most important in my life, I am a very complex personality and he is the only person I've met who is the same "breed" if you will. We have found so much support and understanding in each other when nobody else have been able to vaguely understand. However, I think it's dangerous to nurture our friendship as long as we feel like we feel about each other - there will always be other emotions stirring under the surface and it would be hard to move on. This is also why I'm scared to lose him or having to let him go, because I would not be able to continue our friendship.

Fos, you are right, when it comes to this, I have no back bone, I'd love to borrow yours for a couple of days. But if you met me and if you talked to people around me, you'd see that I am otherwise a very strong, independent person who gets a lot of respect as a professional, as a decision maker and leader type. This is the only side of me you know, which is a shame - I am embarrassed of how weak I must seem here.

Today is my birthday. I have grown to hate my birthdays because something bad always seems to happen. This is obviously not an exception. Only my mother has called and I only expect one friend to call as well because she's born on the same day. The man in question also congratulated me after I told him. Replied and said thanks, but said that I can't live like this. My last birthday was a nightmare, this will be worse. I should go out, but I'm still a mess and I don't want people asking what's wrong, so I have a date with my DVD-player tonight. At least my DVD player won't let me down! And it asks no questions.

Happy Birthday <nessa sings and dances as you all run screaming from the boards>

I already PM'ed you wishing you a happy birthday BEFORE I even saw your last post, so add me to your list of people who "called"! ;)

Don't feel bad about seeming "weak". I know lots of strong people that turn into jelly when it comes to relationship stuff or anything that deals with emotions. It has nothing to do with how intelligent you are or your leadership skills. I'm a lot like that too.

I think that staying friends with this man, as CeeJay already pointed out, will give you the best of both worlds. You can still enjoy his friendship and support except you are now free to open yourself up to other romantic opportunities--men who make themselves available to you 110%. However, as you said, this will not work if you are unable to break free from him emotionally.

Many years ago, I was completely smittened with one of my teachers. He too was unattainable--not married, but gay. I didn't care. We became really close friends and hung out together a lot. He was just like a bf but without the sex part. This arrangement worked for a while, but eventually it wasn't enough for me. How could it be? I was in a fantasy relationship. Destination: nowhere. I felt so crushed and defeated that I couldn't deal with him at all so I abruptedly ended the friendship (which I felt bad about--I should've been honest with him and more gentle about taking off to lick my wounds). But at the time, there was no way I could hang around and hear him vent about one guy he met in a bar after another. Just like you probably can't stand to hear your guy talking about the troubles with his wife. It's like, hel-lo? *waving at blind man*, I'm here and I'm PERFECT for you! Anyway, it was many years before my friend and I could patch things up. And now that I have my very own NON-GAY sweetie, I love hearing all about my friend's bar exploits! :)

Here's another thing for you to think about. Are you unable to let go just because you're in love with this man, or because you're too afraid to put yourself out there in the dating pool? Now think hard. What psychological pay-off are you getting by choosing to stay in limbo? If I were in your shoes, I would walk. So yes, I will tell him "Since you can't seem to make up your mind, which is understandable under the circumstances, I'm really sorry but I have to do what's best for me at this point."

He certainly can't fault you for doing that. After all, right now he's doing what he thinks is best for HIM.

GREAT post, Emzak...

And yep, you can borrow my spine anytime you need it. ;) I think I've got a couple in there, with all the crap I've been through. ROFLAO. And people think I'm too rigid anyway. :rolleyes:

But, forget all that for right now... you need this:

(((((((HUGS))))))))

and this:

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

~phos

HAPPY BIRTHDAY

Happy Birthday, Marianna!

To try and save myself from my previous post. (I think I came across the wrong way).

In my relation, the friendship we have is the tie that binds....In keeping our friendship so trusting and being able to talk about absolutely anything together.... It's what made our relationship (the emotional side) fall into place.

I know you can't walk away from love but focusing more on the friendship (knowing that the love exists) will allow your OM to find the answers he is looking for.

As far as my wonderful quote " we can't soley love one person for the rest of our lives..." Phos, you are correct and I have the utmost respect for those you spoke of. I'm not into the "art" (shall we call it for lack of worse words) of polygomy. (Im not one to take back words but how about we just scratch that part of my last post....lol)

Marianna, do what YOUR heart tells you to do!

I'm not sure this is the correct place or time to say this...but I've still got an hour left...so I'll just say...

HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

Nadine.

Thanks, you guys! I had a painful day, but I really appreciate it and I appreciate all of you.

I already PM'ed you wishing you a happy birthday BEFORE I even saw your last post, so add me to your list of people who "called"! ;)

I'll give you that! Much appreciated.

I was in a fantasy relationship. Destination: nowhere.

I know that's where I probably am. But it's like having anorexia and knowing it, it doesn't stop you from starving yourself.

Here's another thing for you to think about. Are you unable to let go just because you're in love with this man, or because you're too afraid to put yourself out there in the dating pool? Now think hard. What psychological pay-off are you getting by choosing to stay in limbo? If I were in your shoes, I would walk. So yes, I will tell him "Since you can't seem to make up your mind, which is understandable under the circumstances, I'm really sorry but I have to do what's best for me at this point."

Let's just say I have been in love once before and it took me 6 years to get over it, even with a 2 year relationship in the middle of that. With this guy, who I love so much more than the first one, when I first fell for him, I entered into a 1 year relationship because I thought it would help me forget about him. It didn't. My heart gets so committed to one person it's sick. I don't get remotely attracted to other men. The worst (?) part is that I get a bit hostile towards men who are attracted to me if I'm not attracted to them (which I never am) and it's difficult to deal with, especially because I'm an attractive woman and I do get a lot of unwanted attention. I can hear you say 'something's not right about this girl' and you're probably right. Perhaps the best thing is to get some councelling.

I'm probably gonna have to walk, which absolutely kills me. The way things are now, I can't sleep and I can't eat - it's destroying me. Sadly, what lies beyond will probably not be a whole lot better for a long time, but at least there will be some sort of closure.

Marianna, do what YOUR heart tells you to do!

Now THAT's a dangerous piece of advice if I ever heard one, haha! :p

My heart tells me to be patient and wait for him, but I know that's not right unless I'm willing to risk waiting for the rest of my life.

I'm quite sure I'll end up as one of those weird old cat pee-smelling ladies who have never been married - and the children in town think I'm a witch. :eek:

I can hear you say 'something's not right about this girl' and you're probably right. Perhaps the best thing is to get some councelling. I'm probably gonna have to walk, which absolutely kills me. The way things are now, I can't sleep and I can't eat - it's destroying me.

Actually seeing a therapist may not be a bad idea--NOT because "something's not right" with you, but because it will be another place for you to vent to an objective 3rd party and to process your myriad of (negative) feelings. You can't go on like this with the not sleeping and not eating. It will wear down even Hercules! :(

Hi, I'm back after having been left invalid for a week (my laptop's been serviced). No big news for you, I'm feeling a bit better. He beat me to it and said we should have a chat - I don't know when it will be, but as soon as possible. Who knows what will happen, but I'm not excactly expecting heavens to open with hallelujah choirs and flapping angel wings. I'm nervous, but it will be good to get it over with.

Good luck, Marianna... definitely am wishing you the best and some resolution and/or closure.

((((HUGS))))
~phos

Good luck and keep us posted!

good luck...

Thanks, you guys. :)

Wish me luck, guys, we're going to talk now... :confused:

I cannot believe it. We spent two hours talking, which was nice, but none of us managed to muster up the courage to talk about IT! *bangs head in wall repeatedly*

I'm so mad at myself! :mad:

... and him! :mad:

Can you call him back and tell him "IT" had to be talked about??
~phos

I sent him a text after I left saying that I wanted to discuss IT. I can't really call him now as he's gone home.

*still banging head in wall*

Ack! When can you see him next??

Tomorrow or Friday, probably. One of the things that will be difficult to deal with if things come to an end is that we'll have to face each other all the time for a long while. With that in mind, it does make sense to try to stay friends because there's no way we'll be able to avoid each other anyway.

See the film "Shennandoah" starring Jimmy Stewart.

I think it may answer some of your questions.

I haven't seen that film, but I will try to check it out.

I haven't had the chance to talk to him yet. I went to see him on Friday, but I just missed him. However on Sunday he texted me and said we should talk about IT this week. Here's the vague part - he said I shouldn't worry, that I deserve the best.

Fate just got us two flight tickets for three days away in another country along with two other people. I wasn't going originally, but the institution we're visiting insisted that they bring me. I think it will be nice to get away from the daily rut and for him and I to be in another environment. We're going in the end of this month.

Since he said he's really looking forward to it, it doesn't add up that he's going to tell me to get lost this week. However, I'm not willing to carry on as before (but if I deserve the best, I don't think that will be the case either). But who knows... Hopefully I'll see him today.

Do me a favour and tell me if I start to sound like SB! :eek:

Fate just got us two flight tickets for three days away in another country along with two other people. I wasn't going originally, but the institution we're visiting insisted that they bring me. I think it will be nice to get away from the daily rut and for him and I to be in another environment. We're going in the end of this month.

Since he said he's really looking forward to it, it doesn't add up that he's going to tell me to get lost this week. However, I'm not willing to carry on as before (but if I deserve the best, I don't think that will be the case either). But who knows... Hopefully I'll see him today.

Hmm. Three days away in another country with just the two of you (the other two people will not be around when you need them to be), a nice relaxing dinner, some wine, good music, a clear sky with stars, deep conversation, you look into each other's eyes.......... Just be careful, girl!

Do me a favour and tell me if I start to sound like SB! :eek:

Don't worry u r not like that!!! U will never sound like Santababy until u start to write like this!!!

I just got back from the trip abroad with J and two of his colleagues. We got to spend some time one on one and we FINALLY got to talk about what was happening.

All my previous assumptions were confirmed - his marriage is dead, he wants it to end, he's terrified of what's beyond divorce, he's worried he'll lose his son, he wants what's best for the kids. He said he felt a BIG change coming up soon. He's spent too many years with his head in the sand and he understands if it goes on for much longer, he'll just accept a life he doesn't want. I told him that a lot of people stay in a bad situation because even if it's bad, it's a safety in knowing that it will stay that way, as opposed to trading the bad for the unknown. He'd never thought about that and it made a lot of sense to him.

I also said that I shouldn't be waiting at the end of this long road like a price, and he totally agreed - I have nothing to do with him getting divorced, he's getting divorced because of his failing marriage. I did however reassure him that I'm here for him as a support.

He told me the reason he backed off for a while was because he realised that he was growing dependant of me and he needed to take a step back and do some serious thinking.

Nothing sexual happened - even if the opportunities were there. It did however feel strangely intimate going out shopping together. He started buying things to use in his new place - mugs, cutlery etc... Had a wonderful time together, lots of laughs. When I look at him, I see the only man I want to be with and the only man I can't be without.

It may still be a long road ahead, but the direction seems clearer now.

Wow, it sounds like he's finally made a decision. I assume that buying stuff for "his new place" means that he's moving out. What a relief you must feel now that all the ambiguity is over! And yes, it will be a long road ahead if he's heading towards a divorce, custody battle, etc., but just because a decision is hard to implement doesn't mean it's a bad decision. In fact, most good decisions are probably the hardest ones to execute. We'll be here for you!

Thanks Emzak. He hasn't moved out yet, though - but he's started looking. He told me about this place 5 mins walk away from me. I hope it will happen soon, but I won't be gullible - seems sometimes things take time. This was supposed to happen six months ago... I can only hope and be supportive.

At least now he seems to have a much clearer idea of what he wants to do. He has started to make changes to prove to himself that he can take control over his life. He's quit smoking after 30 years, which is pretty good.