GUNS [Archive] - MIND THE age GAP - Age Gap Relationship Support

SierraNevada

03-01-2006, 07:04 PM

By non-registered person...I mean someone like here...in the city, who "borrows" a gun from a family member or friend...and the family member or friend has a concealed carry permit, but the person who borrows the gun doesn't.

And by gunshow loophole...I mean, if someone's going to host a gunshow, they should be responsible if an illegal vendor is selling guns without background checks. Then people who make money hosting gun shows will think twice before allowing anyone in to sell their guns if they end up being liable when those illegal guns sold without background checks are used to commit crimes.

Obviously criminals should be behind bars too but there's way too many gun deaths in this country. There are a lot of shootings in NYC and this is one of the safest big cities. I like civil liberties too, but I think that it needs to be balanced against the public good.

I'm not against people having guns, I just think that because they are so dangerous, we should try as hard as we can to keep guns out of the hands of people who use them for violence. Oh yeah...I'll add that I had a concealed carry permit before I moved to the city. I don't have one anymore.

Salt

03-01-2006, 07:32 PM

Far more automobile deaths than gun deaths.
And there are more deaths due to medical malpractice than gun deaths.

Guns get a bad rap as people want automobiles and hospitals - they do good and are necessary. Guns are evil.

Any guess as to how many times a gun is used in the USA yearly to thwart criminal acts? (It's over 1 million) And this does not mean that the firearm fired either.

"There are a lot of shootings in NYC and this is one of the safest big cities."
:rolleyes:

So, I'm safe in NYC without carrying a gun? Hmmmmm.... Any bad guys there with guns? How many people were shot in 2005 in NYC by criminals with guns? Or are we just playing the odds?

chikygrl13

03-01-2006, 07:58 PM

I'm constantly reminded of a scean from Bowling for Columbine.

"I'd like to open the account where I get a free gun."

"Oh yes, we're a bank AND and liscened firearms dealer"

Does anybody else see a problem with this???

Poll

03-01-2006, 08:03 PM

Does anybody else see a problem with this???
No, doesn't bother me.
You have to pass a background check before the bank actually gives you the rifle. Of course Mikey Moore doesn't tell us that.

fos4snt

03-01-2006, 08:08 PM

Anybody ever get to listen to that Negativland album, "Guns." Everytime I've seen this thread title today, I've heard the distant echo's of that album in my head... and bits of their album "Escape from Noise" where they're talking about Sycamore is open, that's how Sycamore opened, that's what Sycamore is... guns... ROFLAO.

Salt, if you've never heard Negativland, I think I need to burn a couple CDs and send 'em to you. I have their U2/Casey Kasum hilarity that they got SUED over... OMG, its absolutely riotous.

~phos

Salt

03-01-2006, 08:15 PM

fos4snt

03-01-2006, 08:23 PM

Well... the U2/Kasum CD is 2 songs... both about 15 minutes long. :eek: Dunno how to convert them, to be honest. OH dear God they are tear worthy hilarious! And they were all "recalled." Yeah... RIGHT. Like I'd send that back?? OH DEAR GOD NO. The re-released version has the same cover and is called "Guns." It's nowhere near as cool, but its funny, too.

I DO suggest that if you don't want me to send anything via the postal service (LOL), you could get a copy of Escape from Noise and I promise you.. you will laugh a LOT. It's probably one of the most unique, creative, BIZARRE screwed up albums EVER. And no one EVER gets me, unless they've heard it, cuz SO many things make me break into Negativland impersonations... eleven, that's how big they are... ELEVEN... it's black and white and rectangular... CARBOMB!!! *snorts with laughter*

But MP3ing the U2/Kasum CD would be pretty hard.
But look what I found???
http://www.l2g.to/negativland/u2/

More hilarious info:
http://www.swcp.com/rtoads/printmag/issue3/neg_data.html
http://www.negativland.com/audio.html

But damn, the Casey Kasum thing was riotous, since they took cuts of him CUSSING up a storm and intermingled it with a U2 song and him saying stuff like, "U2? Who the fuck gives a shit?" ROFLAO.

ONE more addition: Here are MP3's from Escape from Noise...
http://www.mp3.com/albums/11253/summary.html

Usta crank this album up, put the speakers in the windows and enjoy!!! Last edit: My favorite song in the whole world is the Nesbitt's Lime Soda song. Please be sure to listen to the ending VERY LOUDLY. :eek:

~phos

Salt

03-01-2006, 08:44 PM

I'll send ya my mailing addy ~Phossy :D

Some Dude

03-01-2006, 09:19 PM

I'm not all gung ho on them, but I would like to have one for protection.

One things for sure, a lot of the wrong people have them.

moon

03-01-2006, 11:31 PM

Guns scare me. :(

Poll

03-01-2006, 11:35 PM

Guns scare me. :(
Have you ever fired one? Been to a range? Familiarity lessens the fear :)

SierraNevada

03-01-2006, 11:38 PM

Yeah, I agree with moon. Guns scare me too. I felt less safe having one in my glove box of the Chevy Blazer than I do NOT having any of them near me at all. Maybe just urban life is too much different from rural life for the two sides to agree...but when you're on the subway, and some guy on the platform is printin'...and he AIN'T a UC...its like fuck man. The argument is that I should have one so I can blow him away first...so the first three shots out the 45 go through the plexi glass and hit a mother and her two kids...but hey...at least I'm alive. Don't you see the problem in that arrangement? You pull a gun in my building...with all the cheap slum lord drywall...it'll go through 3 apartments before it either lands in someone's brain or is lucky enough to hit a stud. I would much rather NO ONE had guns...than EVERY ONE had guns. The first seems to serve the issue of 'my protection' much better than the latter.

moon

03-01-2006, 11:43 PM

Have you ever fired one? Been to a range? Familiarity lessens the fear

I'm sure it would, but I've never really had a desire.

Poll

03-01-2006, 11:47 PM

.so the first three shots out the 45 go through the plexi glass and hit a mother and her two kids...but hey...at least I'm alive. Don't you see the problem in that arrangement? You pull a gun in my building...with all the cheap slum lord drywall...it'll go through 3 apartments before it either lands in someone's brain or is lucky enough to hit a stud.
That's why you take target practice and buy hollowpoints, or other rounds that don't travel far.

Poll

03-01-2006, 11:49 PM

I'm sure it would, but I've never really had a desire.
You should try it. Quite fun.

moon

03-01-2006, 11:59 PM

You should try it. Quite fun.
Maybe one day - I've heard it's great stress relief ;)

The first seems to serve the issue of 'my protection' much better than the latter.

Agreed.

So, I'm safe in NYC without carrying a gun? Hmmmmm.... Any bad guys there with guns?
Okay, gotta comment . . . I have lived in the city my whole life. And I lived in some VERY shady neighborhoods. And I mean shady as in gang infested, drive-bys, crack houses, and all. And I went about my business every day and I was NEVER in a situation where I felt I needed to protect myself. Generally speaking, in the city (and I acknowledge that there are some exceptions) you only need to protect yourself from the kind of violence some of you are talking about if you are involved in that kind of a lifestyle. If you don't hang out with people who sling guns, the chances are extremely slim that you will ever have to protect yourself with a gun.

Salt

03-02-2006, 07:25 AM

..so the first three shots out the 45 go through the plexi glass and hit a mother and her two kids.

[When the use of a firearm is called for:]

NO. As you are trained and know your weapoon, one shoot is fired - perp is down - and others, including yourself, are safer.

Know the story of Luby's Cafeteria (Texas)?

http://www.gunownersalliance.com/hupp-10.htm

http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/metropolitan/96/10/15/lubys.html

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=1445

SierraNevada

03-02-2006, 09:38 AM

Salt

03-02-2006, 10:08 AM

Yeah, but Salt, you are advocating that people should carry guns in New York City to protect themselves from the people who carry guns in New York City. You are talking...8 million people. Largest city in the country. There are emotionally disturbed people, psychotics, and violent people. Yeah those people exist everywhere, but there's more here cuz its such a large city.

More the reason. Of that 8 million... 99%+ are not your enemy. Thus one is protecting against a very small number... and some use that as proof that the odds favor never needing a gun so a ban on them is reasonable... but that is fallacious as the number of robberies, assaults, rapes, murders etc demonstrate such do occur with regularity... and points to 'be a victim without recourse' or 'be a victim with recourse'. In an area with say 50K people the number representing that <1% is substantially smaller... yet those same crimes happen with the same regularity based upon the population.

With all the urban problems that come with that...consider how many thousands upon thousands of New Yorkers have substandard housing. Consider how many kids here go to failing inner city schools and can't read. Now if everyone has the right to own a gun...do you think they'll all get their required amount of range time in so they know how to use it?

And why not? This too is fallacious, as shooting ranges are only determined by the # willing to operate one. Also, handgun is age 21+. Most perps in inner city areas have a rap sheet by then... they cannot lawfully own any firearm, yet they are quite often the very ones who you may need to defend against. And the failure of such schools is not related to the gin issue anyway. Remember, just like when alcohol was banned, you will never GET RID of weapons - of any kind.

The NYPD doesn't even get THEIR required range time in and their freaking COPS! (Remember the Diallo thing...18 of 44 is NOT so good). So assuming...that its understood that if they gave out concealed carry permits like candy in NYC, they would almost inevitably end up in the hands of people who are not trained to use them.

Concealed Carry Permits, abhorent as they are, are no different than a drivers license; license is permission to that which would otherwise be unlawful, a trespass, or a tort. Vermont has the right approach. No license has ever prevented a misuse of anything. This is not to say that FFL or ammo dealers cannot require that you present a 'competency Certification' to buy ammo; NRA Certified or whatever. No government law need be made for this to happen. You have no right to buy ammo. Dealers have every right to determne how they will conduct business.

By "use them" I mean like you said..in the sense of, one shot, take down perp, every one go home...versus..I'm a little thug, or totally fucking nuts, I got 13 in the clip, I'm just going to shoot until something drops. And I've even going to hold it sideways for effect like in the video games and movies.

I mean...ya really think that's a good thing to do?

Perp wants to play - SHOOT THE BASTARD! He's going to play no matter. Now what is that little thug thinking when he knows that the odds are 50-50, or even greater, that his intended vic is armed?

Why do people insists on focusing on the perceived evils of firearms? Remember that 1,000,000+ times a year a firearm foils a crime, mostly burgularies, assaults, and probably rapes - and is most often never fired. Those are statistics not reported as the vic never became a reportable statistic. Prof. John Lott has done the best research on this.

Ariel

03-02-2006, 07:37 PM

Guns scare me. :(

Guns scare me too :(

I dont like the look of them or the sound they make.

My boyfriend is still trying to talk me into going to the shooting range with him but I am reluctant. We were lying in his bed one night and he told me he had 3 in his room. I freaked out and told him I did not want to know where they were and I didnt want to see them!

Ive never had a bad experience with a gun....so Im not sure why I am so afraid of them.:confused:

Poll

03-02-2006, 08:06 PM

Go to the range with him. He'll love you for it.

fos4snt

03-02-2006, 08:55 PM

If everyone were trained in the use and safety of a firearm, and CARRIED one (NOT concealed, even) ~ don't you think crime would go WAY the hell down? I know I do. That was sort of the logic behind the thoughts of the founding fathers...

I have a deep respect for that. Even if I am, personally, reluctant to have one in the vacinty of my children. ;)
~phos

jesique

03-02-2006, 11:23 PM

Know the story of Luby's Cafeteria (Texas)?

I do! I grew up ten mins from Killeen, TX...home of the infamous Luby's Massacre.

You go anywhere in Texas and say you're from Killeen (cuz no one's ever heard of Copperas Cove) ...they say...OH...Luby's!

I love guns. I like to shoot em. The day of my sorority formal my college republicans group went to the range and shot guns. So much fun.

We've got four here...all Alec's. He used to fire rifles in competition.

Nadine.

Annie

03-03-2006, 12:49 AM

I dunno about the gun issue...out where I live, they're no big deal. I have my FAC (you need a licence to have a gun in Canada) and I grew up playing "shoot each other with BB pellets" :p . No one ever lost an eye or was otherwise hurt. BUT, I just don't think guns and cities go together very well. But then again, I don't really like or feel safe in cities anyhow...a bunch of people crammed in a small space is bad enough...thow in guns and I want OUTTA there. I guess I can really see all the different prespectives...it's a complex issue. But I don't particularly like or dislike guns....firing off out at "Boneyard" was fun as a teen but I don't have a huge desire to do it now...now archery - that would be fun.

Crysania

03-03-2006, 10:23 AM

I have an innate fear of guns, so I want them FAR away from me. I couldn't hang out with someone who I knew had a gun on them because I'd be totally freaked out by it.

On the subject of gun control? I think it needs to be regulated and people need to be checked out rather carefully before being given guns. I understand people feeling the need to have them for protection, but they need to make sure of who they're giving them to.

They also need to regulate the types of guns used. But I think they already do that?

~Crysania

Poll

03-03-2006, 12:20 PM

But I think they already do that?

~Crysania
Yeah, they do.

Crysania

03-03-2006, 12:22 PM

Yeah, they do.

I recall reading somewhere that they were thinking about or close to lifting the restrictions on ownership of certain firearms...but I was never sure what came of that or if that was all just hooey.

~Crysania

Poll

03-03-2006, 12:27 PM

I recall reading somewhere that they were thinking about or close to lifting the restrictions on ownership of certain firearms...but I was never sure what came of that or if that was all just hooey.

~Crysania
Perhaps you're thinking of the assault weapons ban that expired back in September? That's probably it.

Crysania

03-03-2006, 12:28 PM

Perhaps you're thinking of the assault weapons ban that expired back in September? That's probably it.

Yes...that would be it. I was trying to recall the type of weapons it was referring to. What ever happened there? I remember there being a big deal made of it - and then I heard nothing further.

~Crysania

Poll

03-03-2006, 12:37 PM

Crysania

03-03-2006, 12:40 PM

The law was passed for a 10 year term back in 1994, it banned semiautomatic rifles and shotguns with certain features, (bayonet lugs, threaded barrels etc.) and high capacity ammo magazines.
The law wasn't renewed by Congress by Sep. of '04, so it died.

Thanks for the update. I'm not sure what I think about the law dying...mostly because I don't know enough about guns to distinguish the difference. To me "assault weapon" implies some sort of more dangerous type of weapon than standard hand guns and the like (though I consider those to be dangerous as well). I'd have to do a lot more research to know where I stand on that one.

~Crysania

auntkitty

03-03-2006, 10:43 PM

Please remember that Michael Moore is in the "documentary" business only to make money and he has been quite successful at it. He may talk about being one of the little ppl, but he is a less than truthful......He deserted Flint, MI as soon as he made enough money to buy a Manhattan apt. and MI is a better state for his leaving.....

I had figures about gun deaths vs death by doctor, but cannot find them now:mad: ..anyway doctors are more dangerous than guns......but then I work around police officers so guns are part of everyday life...I nearly bought one when I was divorcing my husb, he had hit me and was threatening to do more to me.....I didn't have the money at the time but I still think about it time to time....

jesique

03-05-2006, 04:52 PM

Micheal Moore is a shiesty bastard.

And thats all I'll say.

Nadine.

SuzieQ

03-05-2006, 06:01 PM

Thanks for the update. I'm not sure what I think about the law dying...mostly because I don't know enough about guns to distinguish the difference. To me "assault weapon" implies some sort of more dangerous type of weapon than standard hand guns and the like (though I consider those to be dangerous as well). I'd have to do a lot more research to know where I stand on that one.
~Crysania
There is no way an AR is any more or less dangerous than a standard rifle, pistol, or revolver. They all shoot bullets. Some just not as fast as others.:D
My sweetness collects firearms. We have a number of pistols, revolvers and yes "assult rifles". They are all registered, and he has the special PAL permits to have them. They are all stored as per regulations. I do know that here in Canada a few AR's that are not allowed in the States are allowed here. Mini 14 comes to mind. There IS a minimum barrel lenght allowed on revolvers and rifles. 4 incles I think. Any firearm CAN be deadly. A safely stored "Assult Rifle" is less dangerous then that butcher knife in your kitchen.

Salt

03-05-2006, 07:48 PM

A friend here in NC has a mini-14. :D Not a bad firearm.

Nafadda

03-10-2006, 01:08 PM

Annie

03-10-2006, 01:30 PM

I like being able to own guns.

I like living in a state where I can carry one in my car without a permit.

I like feeling I could protect myself if I needed to.

I respect guns and would never pull one out and point it at someone,unless I planned on pulling the trigger.

I have quite a few guns,but my favorite one that I keep in my car,is my 357.It just "fits" me.

Coming from a place where this is NOT done...I have a couple questions:

Do you keep it loaded? Is it locked? Or is it just sitting in the glove box? Do you practice regularly?

My problem with guns...is how often are they really used for a "good" purpose? I tend to have issue with this mostly in the backcountry, and don't even want to get started on this...but my point is, if you need to use the gun, is it there ready for you to grab and fire right away? If not, isn't it most likely that it won't be of any use...I mean if you are attacked, you're not going to have time to unlock the case, load the gun, then fire. On the other hand, you can't really leave a loaded gun sitting in your glove box, if you've got kids.....

IMO, though, a gun's a good thing to have in the car for killing road-wounded critters. I HATE seeing that....and it bugs me that people will injure something then just leave it there.

Nafadda

03-10-2006, 02:14 PM

good questions,

Yes,I keep it loaded.No,it is not locked,just sitting in my glove box.I could get to it quickly if need be.I am speaking of the gun that I keep in my car,at this time,as I say,I have others....As far as practice goes,I don't practice that much.I have a gun range I go to once or twice a year.I've had guns for so long,that I think in a "situation",with 6 shots available at that moment,I'd be a pretty good shot.

I don't think of guns ,as being used for "good purpose",I think of them more in a way of not wanting to be a victim.I live in the country.When I am on a "back road",should I break down,a cell phone has no signal more often then not.Should something "bad" come down,I would like to be able to defend myself.

many years ago I was a victim of an attack by a stranger.I decided at that point,I don't like being a victim.

yes,I do have a loaded gun sitting in my unlocked glove box and feel more secure that way.I have no kids,so no worries about that.

as far as road wounded animals go,most of the time if they can be saved,I bring them home,thats why I have a crow with one wing here,a turtle missing his front feet,I've never had to use one on an animal.It's not animals that I see on the news killing at random,it's crazy people.That's what the gun is for.

Salt

03-10-2006, 02:25 PM

it's crazy people.That's what the gun is for.

:eek: :D :eek: :D :eek: :D :cool:

Annie

03-10-2006, 04:40 PM

Nafadda

03-10-2006, 05:23 PM

I love my crow Annie,he's really cool.He can't fly at all,just jumps.When I got him,the wing was just hanging.no repairing it.Crows eat just about anything,so he's easy to keep.He loves peanut butter & jelly.

Our biggest road kills we seem to have here are deers.My favorite one that came here every night jumped my fence at 3 AM and was hit by a truck.He died right away.Last week a female with a baby in her was hit when I was outside.I heard it and went down there and she she too was gone(dead) that quick.These big trucks can really do a job on them.I hate when that happens.

My husband hit one last year ,and he drives a small car.Deer was fine.he just summersalted over the hood.Our car was messed up,but at least the deer was ok and kept running.

btw,I live in an area where I NEVER lock my house when I go somewhere,so I'm not a paranoid with the gun thing.It's just something that makes me feel better having.
also,btw,I happen to LOVE Michael Moore and really enjoy his work.I may not agree wih everything he always says,I do agree with alot of it.I difer with him about guns to some extent,but I still like him and can't wait for him to come out with another documentary.I hear it's going to be about the pharmasutical companies.Bet it will be good.

In a perfect world no one would need a gun.....but,I don't think we will ever see a perfect world.

SierraNevada

03-12-2006, 02:44 PM

:eek: Whoa...ok, so I'm walking down the block last night and hear three ring out. It was about 11:30 PM, maybe midnight.

It wouldn't be so scarry, but with all these millions of people living on top of one another...if you miss, you got a damn good chance of hitting someone else. That's what I don't like about guns, if they only killed the people they were meant to kill, I wouldn't be so afraid of them.

:eek: That's a sickening noise when you are out in the open with no cover.

Annie

03-12-2006, 04:03 PM

Yep....totally agree SN....I don't like cities and I like cities with guns even less. Scary stuff.

Nafadda

03-13-2006, 01:43 PM

Sometimes I hear gun shots go on for hours where I live.It's usually just someone down the road target practicing on their property.I just ignore it.I know it's no big deal,because I don't think anyone would have to shoot someone hundreds of times to kill them.

If this was the city ,I would have a different reaction.

alvin

04-28-2006, 04:04 AM

Jeferson meant muzzleloaders..

And if you are serioous in repelling assaults you should carry a boomerang, swordstick, hachet, machete or tomahawk...:cool:

EnochCain

04-28-2006, 07:45 AM

I love guns and there is a problem when only the govt. is allowed to have guns....ask the Jews about that.

Salt

04-28-2006, 10:16 AM

Jeferson meant muzzleloaders..

And if you are serioous in repelling assaults you should carry a boomerang, swordstick, hachet, machete or tomahawk...:cool:

Jefferson meant the common soldier's weapon of the times.

A boomerang? Are you kidding? Only an idiot aussie would bring a bommerang to a gun fight. BTW, aussie's are generally not idiots.

fos4snt

04-28-2006, 10:38 AM

LOL Salt!

And RIGHT ON Enoch!
~phos

Poll

04-28-2006, 11:56 AM

Jeferson meant muzzleloaders..

And if you are serioous in repelling assaults you should carry a boomerang, swordstick, hachet, machete or tomahawk...:cool:
Machete's under the seat of the truck man.
Semper Paratus

alvin

04-28-2006, 01:27 PM

Jefferson meant the common soldier's weapon of the times.

A boomerang? Are you kidding? Only an idiot aussie would bring a bommerang to a gun fight. BTW, aussie's are generally not idiots.

a) Jefferson meant a muzzleloader. period. If he saw one of today's assault weapon he wd crawl in to Monticello and die heartbroken.

b) Why the choice of boomerang wd be idiotic? :confused: Have you ever thrown one sailor? Go tell it to the marines!! Boomerang is the smartest and most eco-friendly personal weopon ever built: .

c) If you carry all those weapons (Hatchet, machete et al) prescribed above all gunslingers wd give you a wide barth. :cool:

d) WHy pick gunfight in the first place?? Jesus Christ or Gandhi picked a duel, yet imagine their influence in today's world !!!

Salt

04-29-2006, 10:54 AM

Jefferson meant a muzzleloader. period.

Really? Just how do you come to that conclusion? Or, is this just your personal opinion?

Why the choice of boomerang wd be idiotic? Have you ever thrown one sailor? Go tell it to the marines!!

Now don't get me wrong, but I have not seen any marines carrying boomerangs of late. They tend to Jefferson style weapons;)

If you carry all those weapons (Hatchet, machete et al) prescribed above all gunslingers wd give you a wide barth [sic].

If you carried all them you'd be so bogged down you couldn't manuever to save your life. A gunslinger would die laughing:D

WHy pick gunfight in the first place?? Jesus Christ or Gandhi picked a duel, yet imagine their influence in today's world !!!

Off point. Anyway, I do not see anyone mentioning 'pick[ing] a gun fight'.

[BTW, Peter carried a sword (weapon of the times), not a boomerang. Bet he'd have loved an MP-5:D ]

kathyw

04-29-2006, 11:24 AM

Jeferson meant muzzleloaders..

And if you are serioous in repelling assaults you should carry a boomerang, swordstick, hachet, machete or tomahawk...:cool:

Well personally I think boomerangs are cool..and I know a person or two I'd like to fling one at...*thinking about the boomerang whipping through the air toward the "object" or perhpas I should say toward the "subject" LOL ahh but I digress.. :eek: :D

Poll

04-29-2006, 12:56 PM

Watch out for guys wearing trenchcoats in warm weather. If they're not naked underneath then they have an array of machetes, tomahawks, boomerangs, shuriken etc.

Salt

04-29-2006, 01:16 PM

Watch out for guys wearing trenchcoats in warm weather. If they're not naked underneath then they have an array of machetes, tomahawks, boomerangs, shuriken etc.

And if they are naked??????;)

Perhaps sporting a non-lethal dead weapon?:eek:

Roger

04-29-2006, 02:42 PM

Stun gun is good ....non lethal but effective on the spot.

Talking about guns...reminds me of an old western classic : "Ringo" sung by Lorne Greene.....oh its coooooool :) wonder if anybody heard that ?

Ratwoofer

04-29-2006, 03:33 PM

Did anybody watch Bowling for Columbine? What did you think? I was astounded by the amount of gun fatalaties in the US.

alvin

04-29-2006, 09:45 PM

Jefferson meant muzzleloading muskets, cause there was no repeater gun in 18th century (Except perhaps in some experimental stage)

Poll

04-29-2006, 10:59 PM

Bowling for Columbine was a hatchet job.
Alvin: Have you not heard of the puckle gun? ;)

EnochCain

04-29-2006, 11:03 PM

Did anybody watch Bowling for Columbine? What did you think? I was astounded by the amount of gun fatalaties in the US.
People who want more gun laws etc. never think about the fact that if someone is going to murder someone....they are not concerned about a little extra time because they had an illegal gun.

EnochCain

04-29-2006, 11:05 PM

http://www.ritilan.com/archives/images/2004/11/15/111504-6mm-minigun.jpg
This is the gun I want but will never have...*sigh* lol

Flanker

04-29-2006, 11:06 PM

People who want more gun laws etc. never think about the fact that if someone is going to murder someone....they are not concerned about a little extra time because they had an illegal gun.

It is harder to acquire guns illegally. So, gun laws do have their due importance.

EnochCain

04-29-2006, 11:27 PM

It is harder to acquire guns illegally. So, gun laws do have their due importance.
I can actually get a gun easier through illegal means....trust me.

Flanker

04-29-2006, 11:37 PM

EC,
It is easier to obtain guns illegally only if you have connections with criminal violent gangs, e.g., those underground white supremacist gangs.
For rest of us regular folks, we would not know where to go to obtain illegal guns. So, the gun laws do help curb the violent crimes involving guns. They are there for a reason.

All right folks,
I will be hitting the road and get lost in the darkness of Las Vegas. I do wish I had a concealed carry permit though. LOL. Good Night!

EnochCain

04-29-2006, 11:40 PM

kathyw

04-29-2006, 11:42 PM

EC,

All right folks,
I will be hitting the road and get lost in the darkness of Las Vegas. I do wish I had a concealed carry permit though. LOL. Good Night!

That waitress AGAIN Flanker...lol :D ;)

Poll

04-29-2006, 11:44 PM

EnochCain

04-30-2006, 12:06 AM

http://world.guns.ru/assault/m4a1.jpg
Anyway, another pretty gun.

Salt

04-30-2006, 10:30 AM

This is my rifle -

http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/rifles/AR10T.jpg

There are many like it -
But this one is mine -

AR/10T .308 w/o scope (mine has a holo sight)

alvin

04-30-2006, 10:52 AM

This is my rifle -

http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/rifles/AR10T.jpg

There are many like it -
But this one is mine -

AR/10T .308 w/o scope (mine has a holo sight)

I don't think, Thomas Jefferson would approve of it....:(

Nafadda

04-30-2006, 02:13 PM

I went and saw Bowling for Columbine...liked it,bought it,LOVE Michael Moore.

I LOVE owning guns too.;) I have always owned guns.I have always carried a gun.Got my first gun at 15,one of those little 25 auto's....I like bigger guns now,I'm a bigger girl ;)

fos4snt

04-30-2006, 02:25 PM

It is easier to obtain guns illegally only if you have connections with criminal violent gangs, e.g., those underground white supremacist gangs.
For rest of us regular folks, we would not know where to go to obtain illegal guns. So, the gun laws do help curb the violent crimes involving guns. They are there for a reason.

:confused: Yeah, I can get a gun illegally in all of about 20 minutes, with NO affiliation to white supremacist gangs (or any kind of racist remarks) and I have no connections whatsoever to any criminal gangs or organizations. :rolleyes:

It's MUCH easier for criminals to get guns than it is to go through legal means. Always has been and always will be. Take away legal means to get them will NOT stop guns from existing, exchanging hands, or ending up in the hands of criminals. Then the only people DISarmed will BE the law abiding citizens. It's just plain stupid to think otherwise.

~phos

Trish

04-30-2006, 02:52 PM

My daughter's father had a legally registered handgun in the state of New York that he carried all the time. He was shot to death in his convenience store by a punk with an illegal gun. It doesn't matter if you own a gun or not. If someone uses theirs, legal or otherwise, on you before you're able to use yours on them.....you are DEAD!

Flanker

04-30-2006, 03:19 PM

White supremacists gangs?....my friends always got them from the black gangs......and why would regular folk need illegal guns?....not planning on killing anyone?...then there should be no fear of them owning a weapon.

A few things to note for you, I will number them for your convenience:

1) It is not easy to obtain illegal guns unless you know criminals who sell them.
2) White supremacist gang was an example. You can obtain them from several other criminal gangs.
3) I did not say regular folks had needs to buy illegal guns. It is a simple fact that most people do not have connections with criminal elements. Therefore, they cannot obtain guns illegally.
4) I will elaborate further why we have gun control laws if I seem to make some progress on logic with you.

Flanker

04-30-2006, 03:21 PM

:confused: Yeah, I can get a gun illegally in all of about 20 minutes, with NO affiliation to white supremacist gangs (or any kind of racist remarks) and I have no connections whatsoever to any criminal gangs or organizations. :rolleyes:

It's MUCH easier for criminals to get guns than it is to go through legal means. Always has been and always will be. Take away legal means to get them will NOT stop guns from existing, exchanging hands, or ending up in the hands of criminals. Then the only people DISarmed will BE the law abiding citizens. It's just plain stupid to think otherwise.

~phos

How? Tell me how will you obtain an illegal gun without knowing whereabouts of criminal elements?

Flanker

04-30-2006, 03:23 PM

Kathy & Poll,

Seems like Flanker and the Waitress story came to an end yesterday.

Life goes on.............

Poll

04-30-2006, 03:27 PM

Hang in there man

Salt

04-30-2006, 03:33 PM

I don't think(

Agreed!;)

Salt

04-30-2006, 03:47 PM

How? Tell me how will you obtain an illegal gun without knowing whereabouts of criminal elements? Ok.

Guns are legal (tax-stamp paid). Period. It's the ownership that may be in question. When one (non-criminal) who owns a gun sell gun to one (criminal) who has been debarred the ownership/use of a gun the criminal is now in illegal posession of a nominally legal object; and the sale was illegal.

If you doubt my logic - answer this -

If a 13 y/o has a bottle of whiskey, is it illegal whiskey? Whiskey is only illegal, homebrew notwithstanding, if the tax-stamp has not been paid.

It's not the whiskey the 13 y/o has that's illegal, but the posession.

The term 'illegal firearm(s)' or whatever, is a BS term coined for provocative use; the demonization of an intrinsically harmless object; as alcohol is intrinsically harmless yet has been referred to as 'devil's brew'.

Yeah, I can get a gun illegally in all of about 20 minutes

This brings up an interesting thought. If ~Phos were to buy a firearm from one debarred its posession, yet ~Phos being one who may lawfully possess, did she buy a firearm illegally? F-Troop may be of the opinion that she did (no federal form), but as she is one lawfully allowed its possession, background check or not would not alter that fact.

Did the criminal illegally sell firearm to ~Phos? By the same logic, no. It might be argued that the criminal complied with the law by selling to one permitted.

Flanker

04-30-2006, 03:54 PM

Hang in there man

I tried Poll. We walked on the strip at night when strip was almost quiet but lights and glitters were there. I could not make any progress with her. She seemed very startled.

Flanker

04-30-2006, 04:02 PM

Poll

04-30-2006, 04:07 PM

I tried Poll. We walked on the strip at night when strip was almost quiet but lights and glitters were there. I could not make any progress with her. She seemed very startled.
At least you got her to go on a walk. Farther than I would have gotten.

Flanker

04-30-2006, 04:22 PM

Flanker

04-30-2006, 04:25 PM

At least you got her to go on a walk. Farther than I would have gotten.

Well, when you visit Vegas, give her a try. Good things do happen when you are in Vegas along with a sea of bad things.

Salt

04-30-2006, 04:27 PM

Salt,

Of course there are two aspects:

1) Guns that are not registered or brought in through smuggling and other illegal means are illegal guns.
2) It is illegal to sell or gift your legal gun to another person. You can only sell it to another gun dealer.

All the guns that come into the country through smuggling are illegal guns. So the term “illegal guns” is not pure bullshit.

Guns that are not registered - I am not aware that we are required to register our guns. When I purchased my AR/10T, I filled out the fed form and the insta-check was done. The only record of the exchange is at the gun dealer. Now this is NC. Other states might vary. There is no national database containing mandatory gun ownership records, or if there is - it is not by law.

smuggling and other illegal means - I am not aware of any major gun smuggling into the USA. Anyway, as it did not pass customs and that damn unpaid tax rears its head again, yes a smuggled firearm is illegal. I stated this in my previous post by converse logic- Guns are legal (tax-stamp paid).

It is illegal to sell or gift your legal gun to another person. You can only sell it to another gun dealer - I think you meant 'through' another gun dealer - but again, that is designed to satisfy the fed requirement on FFL holders of not selling to one debarred its possession. But the local gun dealer here agreed with me on the private sale between people, that provided the one buying is not debarred its possession the sale is legal. It is highly recommended that a bill of sale be retained. Again though, sale to one debarred does not make the gun illegal, only its possession by one debarred is illegal.

Flanker

04-30-2006, 04:55 PM

I bought my gun in California. When I bought my gun I had to pass a test and obtain Basic Firearms Safety Certificate. In that test, I learned that it is illegal to sell/gift your gun to another person. BFSC is a little card that you are to carry with you when you have your gun in your possession outside your home. You are to produce them to a Peace Officer if demanded. All guns have registration numbers on their barrels. Mine does as well. If you want to sell your gun, you contact a gun dealer, he finds a buyer for you, he purchases your gun from you and then he sells it to the buyer.

Las Vegas also requires registration of guns. Thank god or else only lord knows how many more shootings we would have every day. Anyhow, I think you are going to think carefully before using your registered gun. Police knows your name and address.

I guess all cities and state do not require gun registration but they should. This will help reduce the gun related crimes.

Salt

04-30-2006, 04:55 PM

Salt,

If Mr. Abc gifts/sells his legal gun to Mr. Xyz then it is an illegal act. This act makes Mr. Abc a criminal. So, that brings me back to my original point: only criminals have illegal guns. You cannot beat this point. LOL. May be you can! I would like to see.

OOps. Flanker (LOL) ahhhh, Mr. ABC sells/gifts his legal gun (Mr. Abc is not debarred) to Mr. XYZ. Now, if Mr. XYZ is not debarred, good sale (lawful sale here in NC BTW). If Mr. ABC were debarred, he'd have now complied with law and divested himself of the firearm to one not debarred (Mr. XYZ). Now if Mr. XYZ were debarred and Mr. non-debarred ABC sold him the firearm, Mr. ABC would be guilty of selling a firearm to a criminal; an illegal act. The tax-stamp paid firearm is not now illegal, but its possession by XYZ is; generally, it is a criminal offense for a felon (criminal) to be in posession of a firearm.

(We are ignoring the obvious - mfg or importation of firearms disallowed by law. We need not add this to the discussion.)

Now if all criminals have illegal guns then we do have one big illegal (non stamp tax paid) arms trafficking problem.

This is one reason that the pro-gun lobby is correct - it's not the gun, it's the criminal. The anti-gunners problem is that they are attacking lawful items instead of joining the pro-gunners in prosecuting the criminal. This is also why gun laws are ridiculous. No gun law ever stopped a criminal act. If the anti-gunners were to ever do with automobiles what they do to firearms - they'd be laughed at so badly, tarred and feathered, and run out of town.

fos4snt

04-30-2006, 04:55 PM

Easy, Flanker, my friend... I can pick up the phone and call a friend who owns several guns (legally) and ask if I can buy one (of which, I am legal to do so) and obtain a gun. In fact, there are guns often sold at the flea market down the road every weekend... LOL.

And Salt is right... the gun isn't illegal, if owned by someone who can legally possess one, what makes it illegal is if you possess it and you are not legal to do so (ie. a felon).

Let's also not forget that different states all have different laws where gun ownership, trade and sale of guns is different.

~phos

Salt

04-30-2006, 04:58 PM

I bought my gun in California.

Enough said.

Now I know why you seem to be holding the views you do.

Come here to NC Flanker, or SC, or Ga... LOL... and let us show you what firearm ownership is. BTW, the firearm I pictured here? My AR/10T?

ILLEGAL IN CALIFORNIA!:eek:

Salt

04-30-2006, 05:11 PM

If you want to sell your gun, you contact a gun dealer, he finds a buyer for you, he purchases your gun from you and then he sells it to the buyer.

Las Vegas also requires registration of guns. Thank god or else only lord knows how many more shootings we would have every day. Anyhow, I think you are going to think carefully before using your registered gun. Police knows your name and address.

I guess all cities and state do not require gun registration but they should. This will help reduce the gun related crimes.

I bought a Ruger H&R .32 Magnum from a dealer in Texas. He shipped it to an FFL here (background check etc) where I picked it up.

Las Vegas, the city, may have its own ordinance. Bad law, imo.

I guess all cities and state do not require gun registration but they should. This will help reduce the gun related crimes.

How so? No law ever stopped a drunk from driving. No restraining order ever stopped the one restrained from violating it. Law is only useful for punsihment - no law ever stopped any shit by one out to do the shit.

kathyw

04-30-2006, 09:45 PM

Well, when you visit Vegas, give her a try. Good things do happen when you are in Vegas along with a sea of bad things.

Trust me...that's not only in Vegas Flanker..:( sorry to hear about waitress, but always another one around (or so I've been told :rolleyes: )..I'm with poll, hang in there.

kathyw

04-30-2006, 09:49 PM

I don't think, Thomas Jefferson would approve of it....:(

Then what would TJ approve of..oh, are we back on boomerangs now and off of the gun topic. I think TJ was a pretty smug guy :p , seems he didn't get mad, he just got even..gotta respect a guy like that..and as Alvin said, he didn't even bother with guns for the most part. ;) :cool:

Flanker

04-30-2006, 10:37 PM

I bought a Ruger H&R .32 Magnum from a dealer in Texas. He shipped it to an FFL here (background check etc) where I picked it up.

Las Vegas, the city, may have its own ordinance. Bad law, imo.

I guess all cities and state do not require gun registration but they should. This will help reduce the gun related crimes.

People are simply going to be hesitant in committing crimes with their registered guns. That is all I am saying. You are not going to commit bank robbery with your registered gun.

If a peace officer pulls over bunch of cholos with guns, he cannot arrest them if there is no gun control law in place. Bottom line is gun laws help cops a great deal and lack of gun laws help criminals.

Nevada gun laws need some serious overhauling. They have cowboy approach to guns.

Flanker

04-30-2006, 10:40 PM

Trust me...that's not only in Vegas Flanker..:( sorry to hear about waitress, but always another one around (or so I've been told :rolleyes: )..I'm with poll, hang in there.

Thank you for the consolation!

I wish there were another one like her around. She is one in a million.

kathyw

05-01-2006, 02:04 AM

Thank you for the consolation!

I wish there were another one like her around. She is one in a million.

:( :( I'm sorry...I know that feeling all to well...but there will be another "one in a million" I guarantee it...oh, and as far as the gun thing..I do not endorse, nor do I oppose..no strong opinion on this one for me folks.

;) :)

Salt

05-01-2006, 07:56 AM

People are simply going to be hesitant in committing crimes with their registered guns. That is all I am saying. You are not going to commit bank robbery with your registered gun.

If a peace officer pulls over bunch of cholos with guns, he cannot arrest them if there is no gun control law in place. Bottom line is gun laws help cops a great deal and lack of gun laws help criminals.

Nevada gun laws need some serious overhauling. They have cowboy approach to guns.

That is so weak Flanker.
But it is quite apparent that you endorse the liberal feel good approach to gun ownership, such as is in Britain or Australia. Control it, then get rid of it.

Nafadda

05-01-2006, 11:54 AM

Florida "Castle Doctrine" Protects the Innocent

Puts Judiciary on the side of crime victims
News media gets it completely wrong

On March 23, 2005, The Florida Senate passed SB-436, the "Castle Doctrine" unanimously, by a vote of 39 YEAS to zero NAYS. They know something about this bill.

On April 5, The Florida House passed SB-436, "Castle Doctrine" by a vote of 94 YEAS to 20 NAYS, a margin of better than four to one.

On April 26, Governor Jeb Bush SIGNED SB-436, the "Castle Doctrine" into law (Chapter No. 2005-27) It takes effect on October 1, 2005.

The news media nationwide started in immediately with its “Gunshine State,” blood in the streets, Dirty Harry, vigilante, irrational mass murder nonsense, mythologies, lies and blatant unethical behavior.

A great deal of erroneous information has been written, published and spoken about Florida's new "Castle Doctrine" law.

Claims that the new law will turn Florida into the Wild West are not only an insult to intelligent people but give a patently false portrait of what the bill actually does.

The Florida "Castle Doctrine" law basically does three things:

One: It establishes, in law, the presumption that a criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or occupied vehicle is there to cause death or great bodily harm, therefore a person may use any manner of force, including deadly force, against that person.

Two: It removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a right to be. You no longer have to turn your back on a criminal and try to run when attacked. Instead, you may stand your ground and fight back, meeting force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to yourself or others. [This is an American right repeatedly recognized in Supreme Court gun cases.]

Three: It provides that persons using force authorized by law shall not be prosecuted for using such force.

It also prohibits criminals and their families from suing victims for injuring or killing the criminals who have attacked them.

In short, it gives rights back to law-abiding people and forces judges and prosecutors who are prone to coddling criminals to instead focus on protecting victims.

SO -- is this the impression you got from the news? Why not? Aren’t media people impartial purveyors of objective facts, with no bias or spin, faithfully and accurately reporting the news? Everyone who believes that’s an accurate description of the news media please raise your hand. See? No hands go up. Despite their protests otherwise, the news media has, in general, and especially with respect to gun issues, become an outrageous purveyor of agenda-driven nonsense on the dark side of the force.

Poll

05-01-2006, 01:13 PM

Florida is good

Salt

05-01-2006, 04:18 PM

Florida is good

Yes, it is:D

Flanker

05-02-2006, 01:49 AM

That is so weak Flanker.
But it is quite apparent that you endorse the liberal feel good approach to gun ownership, such as is in Britain or Australia. Control it, then get rid of it.

I mean why was my argument weak? What is wrong with getting rid of guns?

Australia & Canada (and perhaps Britain as well) have much lower gun violence in comparison to USA. What is wrong with that?

Do you want guns just for the sake of guns? Guns are tools. They serve very specific purpose. They should not be brandished just because one feels like it.

Flanker

05-02-2006, 01:52 AM

:( :( I'm sorry...I know that feeling all to well...but there will be another "one in a million" I guarantee it...oh, and as far as the gun thing..I do not endorse, nor do I oppose..no strong opinion on this one for me folks.

;) :)

She is really one in a million. But Clark County population has reached over two millions. So, there got to be another one. :D

Salt

05-02-2006, 09:14 AM

She is really one in a million. But Clark County population has reached over two millions. So, there got to be another one. :D

Demographically, arranging all 2M across the curve, she'd either be quite elderly and in a nursing home :rolleyes: somewhere or in third grade :eek:

alvin

05-02-2006, 09:36 AM

What is the purpose of a gun? Tell me:)

kathyw

05-02-2006, 10:11 AM

What is the purpose of a gun? Tell me:)

To shoot and kill the enemy. :p :rolleyes:

Salt

05-02-2006, 10:48 AM

What is the purpose of a gun? Tell me:)

To expel an object out of its barrel at great velocity.

What one does with the object is debatable, but some use it to provide food, others for sport, others self defense, and yet others still for nefarious purposes.

It's similar to a knife, an object which cuts or stabs. Now what one cuts or stabs with it is debatable too.

Nafadda

05-02-2006, 12:10 PM

What is the purpose of a gun???....depends on who you are and what you are using it for.
to a soldier it may be his best friend..
to a "bad guy" it's an object to do harm with
to a hunter it's one of the tools he hunts with
to an idiot,it's a dangerous tool to have
to someone who was or doesn't want to be a "VICTIM"....IT'S AN EQUALIZER :eek:

so I guess the "purpose" of a gun is up to the individual and having guns for me is MY RIGHT.;)

Poll

05-02-2006, 01:00 PM

What is the purpose of a gun? Tell me:)
Strap one on and Jehovah's Witnesses don't stay at the door long.....

alvin

05-02-2006, 11:10 PM

What one does with the object is debatable, but some use it to provide food, others for sport, others self defense, and yet others still for nefarious purposes.

It's similar to a knife, an object which cuts or stabs. Now what one cuts or stabs with it is debatable too.

When was the last time you obtained food or defended yourself with a gun ?

Sorry, I don't think the knife analogy is correct, You can't eat with a gun :rolleyes:

Flanker

05-03-2006, 01:15 AM

To expel an object out of its barrel at great velocity.

What one does with the object is debatable, but some use it to provide food, others for sport, others self defense, and yet others still for nefarious purposes.

It's similar to a knife, an object which cuts or stabs. Now what one cuts or stabs with it is debatable too.

You are describing the mechanics. You are not describing the purpose. :D

Here is the purpose of a gun: Gun is a tool to kill. That is it.

Flanker

05-03-2006, 01:16 AM

We should not treat guns like toys. They are not toys. You have to ask yourself, do you need a gun? If yes, why?

I lived in Los Angeles, which is a fairly dangerous place. So, I had a gun. Now, I live in Las Vegas, which is even more dangerous but I seldom think of guns anymore.

I have no enemies. A random attack on my house is bound to fail. My dogs, my alarm system will alert me and I will be ready for the intruder with my gun. A planned attack on me by KGB or Mossad may succeed because I do not have the tactical resources (it does not mean lack of guns) to counter them. But what are the chances of KGB or Mossad coming after me?

A lot of militant types go overboard with guns. They carry all kinds of rifles and weapons. If you ask them why, they say they are preparing in case they have to fight the government. Say what? You are going to fight USA’s government with few guns that you bought here and there? I got news for you, only way you can fight USA’s government is through lawyers. That is it. There is no other way.

In the big cities of USA, there is a very high crime rate. A good marksman armed with nice semi-automatic pistol and testicles can handle all the gangsters and thugs. You do not need Stingers and RPGs.

Salt

05-03-2006, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Salt
What one does with the object is debatable, but some use it to provide food, others for sport, others self defense, and yet others still for nefarious purposes.

When was the last time you obtained food or defended yourself with a gun ?

Sorry, I don't think the knife analogy is correct, You can't eat with a gun

I did not know that I was the object of this thread. But just because I have not hunted for food of late does not invalidate my statement. Defended myself? Well... not today, but perchance I shall have opportunity tomorrow. One can only hope.:eek: :rolleyes:

alvin

05-03-2006, 10:30 AM

:) I have not hunted for food of late does not invalidate my statement. Defended myself? Well... not today, but perchance I shall have opportunity tomorrow. One can only hope.:eek: :rolleyes:

WHen was the last time you defended yourself with a firearm? :)

kathyw

05-03-2006, 10:33 AM

:)

WHen was the last time you defended yourself with a firearm? :)

Salt...don't answer this question until you speak with your lawyer...ROFL ;) :D

Salt

05-03-2006, 11:08 AM

:)

When was the last time you defended yourself with a firearm? :)

When I was about 16. If I hadn't http://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/images/smilies/snipersmilie.gif that dang duck he's had a bullseye on my head. Duck shit is serious shit!:eek: It was him or me! :cool: His bomb-bay was open and ready to let fly. His radar had me zeroed.:eek: That quacking sound is unmistakable. ;)

I beckoned him in http://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/images/smilies/1047670317.gif

My target acquisition software was in perfect operating mode that dayhttp://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/images/smilies/1058286530.gif

I let him have it http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/waffen/violent-smiley-043.gif at about 20 yards. Used #8 flak, wide dispersion. There was no escapehttp://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/images/smilies/thumb.gif

I felt a little sorry for the poor fellow http://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/images/smilies/nopity.gif
Not only did he bite the big one, he fell right into the frying panhttp://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/images/smilies/jump.gif

The little angel.
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/engel/angel-smiley-008.gif

Nafadda

05-03-2006, 12:40 PM

I agree the purpose of a gun is to kill,I agree they are NOT toys.Despite a lot of my liberal beliefs and the fact that I'm a Michael Moore fan,Jon Stewart fan etc....I like having guns.I have quite a few.I always carry a gun.I have been attacked and have been a victim and have defended myself with a gun.

The fist time I was attacked by a stranger and I had no gun,I gouged his eye with the high heel of a shoe,I got two direct hits in his eye .If I had not done that he would have killed me,and by the look on the sick mother fuckers face,it would have been a slow painful death.I wish I had a gun at that moment,I would have put the bastard out of his misery.I was 15,needless to say after that I started carry my "first" gun.

Fast forward 7 years,I was walking my dog on a quite dirt road ,when two ugly fucks stopped their truck next to me and said they were going to kill my dog and by the looks on their faces their plans for me were not going to be too nice for me either....when I quickly reached back in my waistband of my jeans ,pulled out my 9MM (I graduated to a bigger gun by that time)and pointed it right in their face,and asked them,"Let's see who can reach a gun the quickest?",they thought better of it and took off.Would I have really shot them???HELL YES,in a second.

I respect guns.I don't ever pull a gun on someone unless I would actually pull the trigger.I don't believe in playing around with guns or pulling them out when people are drinking,I hate hunting,and I hate being a victim.As strong as I am,an average man could probably overpower me,my gun is an equalizer.If both me and the "bad guy" happen to have a gun at the same time,it will come down to who's the quickest(and I like to think I'm pretty fast with a gun),even if I'm not the quickest,I'd rather get shot then be tortured and killed.

In a perfect world we may not need a gun,last time I checked,this wasn't a "perfect world".;)

Poll

05-03-2006, 12:52 PM

I have been attacked and have been a victim and have defended myself with a gun.

I salute you

Salt

05-03-2006, 01:50 PM

Good job Nafadda. :D

Flanker

05-04-2006, 01:17 AM

Good to see liberals and conservatives making out. LOL.

<tears of emotions coming out of my eyes>

I just want to clarify something:

a) I am not a pacifist
b) I believe that all guns should be registered (Afterall if you have no criminal intent then why worry about gun registration)
c) This is not a safe society. So, some people may want to arm themselves. But register your damn gun.
d) We do not need machine guns in the hands of civilians. So, we have to regulate type of guns that are in hands of our civilians.

What is so difficult to understand?

Anyhow right now my priority is not the gun. I am chiesling my body to win a prison fight. This is much harder than any gun fight. :)

Flanker

05-04-2006, 01:21 AM

I did not know that I was the object of this thread. But just because I have not hunted for food of late does not invalidate my statement. Defended myself? Well... not today, but perchance I shall have opportunity tomorrow. One can only hope.:eek: :rolleyes:

You are not the object of the thread. That is true.

But Alvin was trying to make a very good point. How many of us here use guns to feed ourselves? How many of us have used guns to defend ourselves?

Those are good questions. They serve very specific point; they prove that guns are overrated.

Poll

05-04-2006, 01:22 AM

I am chiesling my body to win a prison fight. This is much harder than any gun fight. :)
Toughman Competition coming to Vegas?

Flanker

05-04-2006, 01:23 AM

Toughman Competition coming to Vegas?

No man! I am preparing for a prison fight. :D

<Kidding>

EnochCain

05-04-2006, 01:27 AM

This is my rifle -

http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/rifles/AR10T.jpg

There are many like it -
But this one is mine -

AR/10T .308 w/o scope (mine has a holo sight)
Beautiful.

Salt

05-04-2006, 10:58 AM

b) I believe that all guns should be registered (Afterall if you have no criminal intent then why worry about gun registration)

What is so difficult to understand?

Registering is most difficult to understand. It is anti-liberty. It is big brother.

"Afterall if you have no criminal intent then why worry about gun registration"

Hmmmm, if your not a criminal, then, by your logic, one would naturally permit police inspection / searches of your home / car / whatever whenever they please.

I mean, if you have nothing to hide then you should permit government any and all intrusion into your life. Government is your friend and is there to protect and take care of you.

Since the criminal does not obey laws, gun registration is of no use to the criminal... so just how does gun registration effect the criminal? It doesn't.

But gun registration has been used against the people to collect their guns. Ask a Britian.

Nafadda

05-04-2006, 11:51 AM

Florida - No state requirement that gun owners register their firearms.

so I should register them WHY????:confused:

now,if you'll excuse me I have to go outside and knock my punching bag around for a while,to change the subject and show what kind of "KICK ASS CHICK" I am......:rolleyes:

but hey,I'm just a woman,what do I know about guns .....WTFE:cool:

fos4snt

05-04-2006, 08:54 PM

Flanker.. here is an interesting read for you!

The beginning of the Declaration of Independence
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world...

Oh... and in our Constitution??
Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

What does INFRINGE mean? Hmmm... The dictionary defines infringing as:
To encroach on someone or something; engage in trespassing: an increased workload that infringed on his personal life.transitive verb : to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another <the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed —U.S. Constitution amendment II>; especially : to violate a holder's rights under (a copyright, patent, trademark, or trade name)

The people is ALL the people, as noted in the Declaration of Independence, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

In my humble opinion, these include people who might have broken unreasonable laws which were created to infringe upon people's rights to their pursuit of happiness (ie. war on drugs)...

I could go on and on, but no point.

And another nice link here, too:
http://www.perkel.com/politics/issues/fourth.htm

~phos

Salt

05-04-2006, 09:00 PM

Excellent ~Phos. If only deft ears could hear or blind eyes could see.

alvin

05-04-2006, 10:58 PM

When I was about 16. If I hadn't http://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/images/smilies/snipersmilie.gif that dang duck he's had a bullseye on my head. Duck shit is serious shit!:eek: It was him or me! :cool: His bomb-bay was open and ready to let fly. His radar had me zeroed.:eek: That quacking sound is unmistakable. ;)

I beckoned him in http://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/images/smilies/1047670317.gif

My target acquisition software was in perfect operating mode that dayhttp://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/images/smilies/1058286530.gif

I let him have it http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/waffen/violent-smiley-043.gif at about 20 yards. Used #8 flak, wide dispersion. There was no escapehttp://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/images/smilies/thumb.gif

I felt a little sorry for the poor fellow http://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/images/smilies/nopity.gif
Not only did he bite the big one, he fell right into the frying panhttp://www.watchfarscape.com/forums/images/smilies/jump.gif

The little angel.
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/engel/angel-smiley-008.gif

How old you are now?:) You have managed quite well since then...son't say you are still digesting the duck

alvin

05-04-2006, 11:14 PM

Poll

05-04-2006, 11:25 PM

and registration is no harassment?
until the govt. comes to get the registered guns. ask an Australian gunowner

Flanker

05-05-2006, 02:22 AM

I want to make a quick post and hit the bed. My entire body, head to toe hurts.

Nevada is a very good example to show the failure of cowboy approach towards guns. Most of these macho guys say that if you make guns available freely, it will curb the crime rate. Nevada has very relaxed gun laws. But once the gangsters from Los Angeles started to move in Vegas, crime rates went up.

Lack of gun regulations is heaven for gangsters and nightmare for cops. Say a cop pulls over dangerous cholos armed with loaded oozies, how is he going to arrest them if there are no gun laws? Cops cannot arrest or not arrest people based on their appearance. They have to go by law. See the problem?

EnochCain

05-05-2006, 02:26 AM

fos4snt

05-05-2006, 07:10 AM

Not only that, you're then jumping the gun and ASSUMING, based on APPEARANCE, they are out to kill someone. Could it possibly be there are four gangster WANNABEs in the car who are just headed to a show who happen to have some LEGAL guns and are LEGALLY allowed to carry them?

Do you then think its right, just and fair to harass and arrest four young men men based SOLELY on an assumption by how they are DRESSED? That is SICK, Flanker.

I remember quite vividly how the cops where I grew up harassed young teenage men simply for the CARS they drove (muscle cars at the time) and my brother was one of them, because, heaven forbid, he had spikey punked out hair and drove a sooped up Dodge Dart. He would get pulled over sometimes several times a day for NOTHING. Breaking NO laws, doing NOTHING wrong. This is EXACTLY the kind of harassment the founding fathers despised!! Have you ever READ the entire Declaration of Independence? :rolleyes: Cops are there to keep the peace, FOR THE PEOPLE, not to harass the people and FABRICATE broken laws and illegally seach them.

~phos

missymissus

05-05-2006, 10:06 AM

fos4snt

05-05-2006, 10:27 AM

*points up* And right there is the very valid reason of why its an utter waste of time and government resources to do so.

And let's see... registration is the first step to confiscation! Ask the jews about that one. Or even the brits!
~phos

Salt

05-05-2006, 10:31 AM

Lack of gun regulations is heaven for gangsters and nightmare for cops.

Cops generally, being most of the time, only pick up the peices and investigate 'after the fact'.

Since law abiding gangstas (yes, I did spell it that way:D ) is an oxymoron, what of it that a lack of gun registration is a nighmare for cops? (BTW, it's not as if tracing a gun cannot be done.)

The first line of defense for me - IS ME! The first line of defense for you - IS YOU. The gangsta cares not if his gun is registered. I doubt very much if he cares about mine either.

fos4snt

05-05-2006, 01:58 PM

Poll

05-05-2006, 04:03 PM

But once the gangsters from Los Angeles started to move in Vegas, crime rates went up.

The problem isn't guns, it's LA gangsters :)

Salt

05-05-2006, 06:32 PM

The problem isn't guns, it's LA gangsters :)

Shoot the bastards:D Isn't that what people are saying guns are for?:eek:

Flanker

05-05-2006, 10:15 PM

#1 its spelled "Uzi" and number #2 the gangsters dont give a shit about your gun laws for fucks sake!

Good that you know how to spell fucking oozies. We fucking know that gangsters fucking do not care about fucking law. That is not the fucking point. Is it fucking clear?

Flanker

05-05-2006, 10:27 PM

Gun registration is good when a registered gun is used in a homicide and they are able to trace it back to the person who bought it. IF every gun in the country was registered, this could be used as an arguement for gun registration laws.

BUT, how many criminals care to register their guns? Not too many, and its not very difficult for them to get ahold of guns either.

When my husband was younger, he lived in a crappy apartment complex. One night someone decided they didnt like him very much. Shot through the wall right above his head, shot out the window in his boys' room. The cops managed to find the gun, and it was registered. But it was registered to some 90 year old man in a wheel chair who had recently had his home broken into. Registration didnt do a damn bit of good.

Well we can always find a few flaws in good things. Gun registration is no exception. I am not talking about voluntary registration of guns. I am talking about the law, which will require gun registration. So, once that happens and you are found with an unregistered gun, you will be locked up. That is what I am talking about.

By reading most of these posts, one thing is clear that many of you have not seen real gangsters yet.

I want to read rest of the forum and hit the gym in few minutes. But later I will elaborate on my first hand experience with gangsters when I used to live in E Los Angeles.

The strategy you folks are talking about may work in your little towns but it will not work in the cities that are filled with gangsters like Los Angeles and Las Vegas. When gangsters arrive, the first thing cowboys do is put their tail between their legs and leave.

Flanker

05-05-2006, 10:29 PM

The problem isn't guns, it's LA gangsters :)

Where did you get that idea? ;)

I think you read my posts about waitress carefully but you do not read my posts about guns carefully. ;)

kathyw

05-05-2006, 10:31 PM

Shoot the bastards:D Isn't that what people are saying guns are for?:eek:

:D :eek: LOL Salt...This is what a gun means to me...let's put it that way. (Bastards meaning lawyers..or any variation thereof..ahh..but I digress..back to topic)

alvin

05-05-2006, 10:32 PM

Every cartridge should carry an embedded microchip

Flanker

05-05-2006, 10:38 PM

Or better yet, you piss off a gangsta in an argument. He stalks you, cases your house, steals your gun, watches your whereabouts for a while, then shoots someone with YOUR gun and happily puts it back in its original place laughing up a storm as the cops come and haul your @R#@%$# gun registering, law abiding ass to jail. It's been done... it's called being framed.

~phos

You are paranoid. :D

<peace> You are one of my favorite posters. <peace>

On a separate note, not directed at you, people who are obsessed about guns are frightened people who have lost resolution of strength. I used to be like that but not anymore.

As promised earlier, I will touch upon this gangster dimension later, either late tonight or late tomorrow.

Flanker

05-05-2006, 10:44 PM

Shoot the bastards:D Isn't that what people are saying guns are for?:eek:

As I said earlier, when the gangsters start arriving, all the cowboys tuck their tails and start leaving. Then it is left to gentlemen police officers to deal with them. A two-year-old girl waiting for her daddy (a peace officer) who would never return because he had to go break a gunfight between a cowboy and a gangster, a fight in which gangster was about to shoot the cowboy in the ass.

Salt

05-05-2006, 11:14 PM

... but you do not read my posts about guns carefully. ;)

Such a statement implies that because one disagrees, one has not carefully read your posts; Implicitly if one did read your posts carefully one would be in agreement.

In short, Flanker says Flanker is correct.

The founding fathers and a good 20+ million americans disagree.

Salt

05-05-2006, 11:18 PM

As I said earlier, when the gangsters start arriving, all the cowboys tuck their tails and start leaving.

That is more a consequence of government, the courts and the media.

But the greatest gangsters of all carry badges. :eek:

Salt

05-05-2006, 11:22 PM

You are paranoid. :D

Better to be paranoid than to be dillusional. The first will keep you off the tracks, the second will tell you the train is but an illusion and it won't hurt you.

fos4snt

05-05-2006, 11:39 PM

Flanker... you are also one of my favorite posters... but I have seen gangsters up close and personal. Do you not recollect I lived in da "hood" for five plus years prior to my divorce and HAVING to sell (not wanting to) and moving? If you read the papers ~ nationally ~ you will realize that Northern Virginia has a rampant problem with MS-13. I happened to live in a community with one of the largest MS-13 concentrations. I had gang fights, literally, IN my backyard. I had people break into my home WHEN I was home and steal my kids crap. I had my friends car "tagged" simply for parking in the school parking lot.

I do know the people you are talking about. And I do also know they are still PEOPLE. And they CAN be reached, befriended, and aren't inherently "evil" people who need to be put down like a rabid dog. The very same person who stole my sons scooter from INSIDE my house also ended up being INVITED in by ME and I got to know him as a human being. A troubled human being, but a person.

I think a lot of the time when you learn to understand where these people come from ~ the history behind what drives them into gangs in the FIRST place, you can possibly begin to see that they ARE still individual human beings and that PART of the problem is harassment and people telling them from a very young age they are NOTHING and worth NOTHING and will only end up in jail or dead.

You cannot blame a gun for the problems going on, you cannot blame entire GROUPS of people, either. There is a problem, yes, but its not with guns or law abiding citizens or gun registration or entire groups of people. It's way bigger than that.

The founding fathers knew what they were doing and I, for one, believe in what their INTENDED... that all people be capable of defending themselves, their families, etc. And that includes having weaponry equal to that of the government or military which desires to control them ~ as power always corrupts. ALWAYS.

It is not paranoia. It is simple common sense.

~phos

missymissus

05-06-2006, 02:23 AM

[QUOTE=Flanker]

By reading most of these posts, one thing is clear that many of you have not seen real gangsters yet.

I want to read rest of the forum and hit the gym in few minutes. But later I will elaborate on my first hand experience with gangsters when I used to live in E Los Angeles.
QUOTE]
What makes you so sure anyone with first hand experience with gangsters would agree with you. I've been lucky enough to not have had those experiences, but my husband has. He's got scars from "first hand experiences." He has been shot at several times. I think that qualifies as first hand expereince. He believes people should have access to guns and registration does not work. Its a nice idea but it doesnt work.

Poll

05-06-2006, 02:24 AM

Where did you get that idea? ;)

I think you read my posts about waitress carefully but you do not read my posts about guns carefully. ;)
Waitresses in high heels are more interesting than guns.

kathyw

05-06-2006, 09:33 AM

Waitresses in high heels are more interesting than guns.

ROFL Poll..yes, Flanker has a "thing" for waitresses in high heals I've noticed. :p

Poll

05-06-2006, 12:16 PM

As have I Kathy, as have I ;)

Nafadda

05-06-2006, 12:51 PM

I must dine at different types of dining establishments then some people. The waitresses I see don't wear "high heels" because if they did, by the end of their shift they would probably have to have their feet amputated ,that's if they didn't fall in the kitchen area on a slick floor and break their neck. :confused:

oh yea,and about this I am talking about the law, which will require gun registration. So, once that happens and you are found with an unregistered gun, you will be locked up. That is what I am talking about

yea,lets lock up law abidding people with no criminal records, in all ready over crowded jails because they have an un registered gun,yea,I bet that law would really "fly":rolleyes:

so if this argument is coming down to who has seen a "real gangsta" and who hasn't ,it's loosing it's credability.never assume that you know what a person has seen or has not seen .a person may live in a "small town",does that mean they lived there forever and have never "seen" things????WRONG assumption!

I'm glad as I've stated that we DO NOT have to register our guns here in FL,I'm glad we have the FL CASTLE DOCTRINE and that it was revised.I'm glad I have the right to carry a gun ,if someone doesn't want to carry one,that's up to them,just don't try and take away mine.;)

Poll

05-06-2006, 01:32 PM

I wish you could own sound suppressors here in the States without an NFA tax stamp.

Nafadda

05-06-2006, 01:54 PM

sound suppressors ,do you mean as in a silencer ??try a pillow,worked for me.;)

another thing,not sure where everyone else lives,BUT,back in the swamps in my little "cowboy" town,it takes the police anywhere from 20-40 minutes to arrive ,unless they happen to be right in the area,which is not too often,soooo with that in mind,having a gun is a "good thing",just in case some bad guy happens to be up to no good ,like robbing,or hurting you in some way.Yes,even in this "perfect world" those thing do happen sometimes.:(

I really don't care who wants a gun and who doesn't want a gun ,BUT ,I do care when people want to interfere with MY RIGHT to have them and think I have to have them registered .That's interfering with MY RIGHTs and MY business just a little too much....and in the mean time, the "bad guys" are going to have them regardless.

missymissus

05-06-2006, 01:55 PM

yea,lets lock up law abidding people with no criminal records, in all ready over crowded jails because they have an un registered gun,yea,I bet that law would really "fly":rolleyes:

so if this argument is coming down to who has seen a "real gangsta" and who hasn't ,it's loosing it's credability.never assume that you know what a person has seen or has not seen .a person may live in a "small town",does that mean they lived there forever and have never "seen" things????WRONG assumption!

I'm glad as I've stated that we DO NOT have to register our guns here in FL,I'm glad we have the FL CASTLE DOCTRINE and that it was revised.I'm glad I have the right to carry a gun ,if someone doesn't want to carry one,that's up to them,just don't try and take away mine.;)
exactly.

missymissus

05-06-2006, 01:57 PM

The little "cowboy" town I grew up in currently does not have a police force....they were all fired for various drug/prostitiution/bribery offences. If something happens, you're on your own. Yeah, they dont have "gangs" per say, but there are bad guys. If you want to protect your family, you own a gun.

Poll

05-06-2006, 03:36 PM

sound suppressors ,do you mean as in a silencer ??try a pillow,worked for me.;)

I'll try it. I heard 2 liter soda bottles work good too.

Salt

05-06-2006, 07:38 PM

oh yea,and about this
Quote:
I am talking about the law, which will require gun registration. So, once that happens and you are found with an unregistered gun, you will be locked up. That is what I am talking about

That is how government controls. By making criminals out of people who do no wrong.

Government has this habit of making illegal that which is nominally legal.

A neighbor (duplex) once came to my door (~8pm) in the middle of winter. Her and her ~10 y/o daughter. Her BF was in a rage as he often was, and she was afraid. I had just watched him punch out their volkswagen windshield with his fists (now bloody). Yes, he had a gun in their apartment. So being in such close proximity I walked her to another neighbor's house and called the cops. Yes, I was then armed with my 9mm Browning. The cops asked if I was armed when they got there. "Yes!" They most heartily approved.

Flanker

05-06-2006, 07:56 PM

Such a statement implies that because one disagrees, one has not carefully read your posts; Implicitly if one did read your posts carefully one would be in agreement.

In short, Flanker says Flanker is correct.

The founding fathers and a good 20+ million americans disagree.

Not at all!

I was simply surprised; Poll thought that I was not laying any blame on gangsters. If anyone knows anything about me, they would know that I hate gangsters of all colors.

Flanker

05-06-2006, 07:59 PM

Every cartridge should carry an embedded microchip

Amidst all the crap, I missed this great post. Wonderful idea! Only people with bad intentions will have problems with this.

Better yet, we can install tracking devices in each gun. Data will be transmitted and stored in a SQL for future use. How about that? :D

Flanker

05-06-2006, 08:07 PM

That is more a consequence of government, the courts and the media.

But the greatest gangsters of all carry badges. :eek:

If cops in your town are anything like the cops here in Vegas, I can understand your statement.

But I have tremendous respect of cops in Los Angeles and throughout California based on what I have experienced. They seem to be doing great job under tremendous pressure.

When cops start acting like gangsters or cowboys, it creates serious law and order problems. In my humble opinion, those kind of cops should be immediately expelled from the force.

Flanker

05-06-2006, 08:31 PM